Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
glc
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Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by glc » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:36 pm

I have a Yamaha GC22C. I bought it new about 2 years ago.
It came with its own saddle made out of Yamaha's urea material. It's not bone.
It sounds nice and loud enough for me and also bright and punchy.

Recently I inserted a bone saddle on it. It sounded noticeably louder and brighter but not by very much.

I would have just used the new bone saddle if it were not for this thought:
Why did Yamaha not put a bone saddle in it in the first place? Surely the reason can't be because they want to cut cost since a bone saddle costs only $4.

I haven't developed an ear to judge what a good classical guitar should sound like so I couldn't decide if to go for bone or stick with Yamaha's urea.
Forget about bone and just stick with Yamaha's original urea saddle?

Thanks for reading and hope to get a reply.
Yamaha GC22C

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Kent
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by Kent » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:46 pm

glc wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:36 pm
Recently I inserted a bone saddle on it. It sounded noticeably louder and brighter
Maybe you already answered your own question?

bftobin
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by bftobin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:50 pm

Bone isn't always better. It sometimes has soft spots etc and for Yamaha to pay in time and resources would be
a lot more than four dollars. I'm sure they did plenty of testing on the material they use.

Brent

gary macleod

Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by gary macleod » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:53 pm

I would stick with the bone saddle.

glc
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by glc » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:03 pm

They do sound different in some ways - I mean not just louder. I'm new to classical guitars and couldn't know which is better.

I'd record them both and post a link if I know how. But then my old/cheap Genius brand microphone doesn't do justice to anything it records. They sound all the same. I'm still using WindowsXP with an Audigy sound card that has this recording program.
Yamaha GC22C

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Beowulf
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by Beowulf » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:33 pm

Which sound do you prefer? Play with the bone for a few weeks, then go back to urea and see what you think. Also, make sure the two saddles are otherwise identical...height, slope and the point at the front of the saddle where the strings are supported. If that point is not the same, the compensation/intonation will be affected. If the height is different, e.g., the bone is taller, you may have more dynamic range before buzzing sets in.
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

glc
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by glc » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:50 am

I kinda' like them both. I mean if I use one for a period w/o comparing in mind, I get to like them whichever. Although they sound differently.

About the saddles: The bone has three compensations for string numbers 2, 3, & 4 while Yamaha's urea has only one compensation for 3rd/G string.
They are about the same height: 7mm on the 6th and 6mm on the 1st string.

I suppose anyone of them would do.
Anyways, I hope someone with a Yamaha GC22C can share their thoughts on this matter because I don't know any better to decide for myself.

According to the posts here, the score seems about even with 2 voting for bone and 2 leaning on Yamaha's original urea saddle.
Yamaha GC22C

SteveL123
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:44 pm

I do not know if the plastic Hauser II used for the nut on some of his guitars are urea based or not, but he did use them.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=126451&sid=eecc5bfa ... 5#p1345549

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souldier
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by souldier » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:23 pm

Not sure about Yamaha's saddles but I find plastic saddles to produce a brighter/thinner tone while bone generally produces a fuller and more robust tone that isn't necessarily louder. I've played several Yamaha GC guitars and they all have that signature yamaha sound which can tend be quite bright and sometimes "plasticy", so I'd probably prefer a bone saddle to balance and round out the sound.

We can only wonder why yamaha didn't use bone for the GC22, while the GC32 onward does use bone. I'd imagine cost cutting is a part of it, as well as giving customers a greater insensitive to spring for higher models such as the GC32. It often just boils down to marketing tactics. They obviously wouldn't use the "urea" saddle if they felt it was superior to bone since they reserve bone for their highest models. I've played a GC32 and liked it quite a bit more than the GC22 because it had a more refined and attractive tone, but who really knows if you can attribute that partially to the bone saddle.

If you haven't yet developed the technique and tone production to really tell the difference, then it probably shouldn't matter that much to you anyway. If I were you I'd just switch back and forth between them as desired until clear differences start to surface.
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glc
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by glc » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:47 am

Urea = bright and "plasticy" ( ... I like the sound of nylon)
Bone = fuller and more robust tone (this could be the deciding factor)

Thanks I'll keep them in mind.

Well it's still an even score with Bone = 3 and Urea =3 also.
Yamaha GC22C

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chelson
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by chelson » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:19 am

I have also given my 22 a bone, only for the purpose of lowering the setup for the comfort of my hard practise sessions, and not to disturb her original plastic.

22 has quite good sustain, although she don't balance very well across the tone. For me, ok lah. LOL!
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glc
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by glc » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:21 pm

Quote from above post: "... and not to disturb her original plastic"

Yes, it's difficult if not impossible to buy a urea saddle. Better to preserve the original and not to sand paper it. Work with bone instead, they can be bought easily. Thanks.
Yamaha GC22C

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Guitar-ded
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by Guitar-ded » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:09 pm

Honestly, I doubt if it matters. Use the one you prefer or swap them around for a while to be sure of which you prefer if you have a mind to do that.
As glc says above if you're going to sand or change the saddle then work on the bone as they are easier to replace, although I'm sure Yamaha will send you replacements if need be.
Getting better bit by bit, day by day.

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Beowulf
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by Beowulf » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:02 pm

Guitar-ded wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:09 pm
...I'm sure Yamaha will send you replacements if need be.
Yup: https://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/ ... _id=102074

P.S. This is not a commercial order link.
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

glc
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Re: Would you put a bone saddle on Yamaha GC22C?

Post by glc » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:43 pm

wow what a link. Thanks very much, I shall bookmark it.
Yamaha GC22C

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