Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Audio and video recordings of the works of John Dowland.
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lucy
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by lucy » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:21 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:59 pm
lucy wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:27 pm
...
...if using a capo, should it always be placed on 3rd fret, when playing this kind of music, or does it depend on the key?
Its about sonority rather than key. As Rob observed, the originals exist in many different keys, and given that tuning varied greatly over time and geography, the original composers and arrangers simply were not that fussed about key in the way we tend to be now.
Most 'normal' guitars - inc yours! - generally sound better with the capo on 2nd fret. This also makes it easier when you are learning a piece that goes above the 5th fret - compensating for 2 frets is normally easier than 3.
Thanks Stephen and Rob. :)

I've actually already placed the capo on the 3rd fret, because I copied Rob!

I'm getting quite a nice sound with it there, but I will try the 2nd fret too. I'm plucking very lightly and using more flesh too, I think.

I may stick with it on the 3rd fret, though, because it makes some of the stretches that bit easier.

I've recently acquired the complete Dowland edition by Diana Poulton and have scanned in Fantastia 1A (previously known as No.7) and cropped out the keyboard line, so it's now just 3 pages of lute tablature.

Yes, it is tricky knowing where the fingers should go, higher up the fretboard, with a capo on the 3rd fret! But I hope it'll be OK, once I've got used to it. I'm playing Lachrimae OK now, but it doesn't go up as high as the fantasia! Will have to see how it goes...
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

RobMacKillop
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by RobMacKillop » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:47 pm

If you have a 7th fret position dot on the side of the neck, having the capo on the second fret makes that a 5th-fret marker, which can be useful. I would normally be grateful of that, but, as Lucy mentions, as there are big stretches in Lachrimae, the third position helps a little.

I still find the cadential decoration in the Fantasia too fast for my technique. I can only wish you well, Lucy! Good luck!

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Lawler
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by Lawler » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:29 am

Nice playing, Rob. Expressive, delicate and clear. We need more that's delicate in the guitar world.

RobMacKillop
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by RobMacKillop » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:30 am

Thanks, Lawlor. Here, here!

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lucy
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by lucy » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:57 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:47 pm
I still find the cadential decoration in the Fantasia too fast for my technique. I can only wish you well, Lucy! Good luck!
Thank you Rob. I did play that fantasia a few years ago, with no capo. Yes, those decorations are particularly difficult!! Hope to do a better job this time! Also, I think I should have used a capo last time too.

Actually, I like the ability to imitate a lute so much, I'm going to play Weiss with a capo too. :)

I'm not sure about Bach, though. His music is so interchangeable. Even the lute suites may not have been for lute, or so I'm told. In any case, one of them is also scored for the violin and another for cello. So, I don't think it matters that much. But of course, Weiss and Dowland is idiomatic to the lute.

I'm developing a really light touch, in combination with the capo, to try and imitate the sound of a lute, as far as I can, but I don't want to play too much music like this, because it might be a bit quiet for public performance. However, I think one or two pieces, played in this way, would enhance a programme. It's quite a challenge, modifying my right hand technique!
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

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erichert
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by erichert » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:15 pm

Beautiful!

RobMacKillop
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:06 pm

Thanks, erichert. Glad you like it.

Lucy, good luck! Let us know how you get on.

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lucy
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by lucy » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:07 am

RobMacKillop wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:06 pm
Lucy, good luck! Let us know how you get on.
I will. Thanks. :)

I'm planning to do a video of Lachrimae, at some point. But, I'm still working on playing really delicately and keeping the lines going nicely. I suppose that's the point of Poulton's keyboard notation - it's so you can see which notes to hold on and for how long.

As for the fantasia, well, my left hand doesn't even know which fret is which at the moment!! But, I suppose it should get easier, if I keep reading tablature + capo.

Thank you for inspiring me to do this! :bye:
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by RobMacKillop » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:11 am

:bye:

Conall
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by Conall » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:34 pm

Lovely, gentle rendition.

I adore Dowland's works and I'm very grateful his music is playable on guitar (especially ext. range gtr.). I intend to learn properly all the fancies in particular. I believe these are among the greatest works for lute and should be heard more often!

RobMacKillop
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by RobMacKillop » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:06 pm

Yes, they are wonderful, especially, for my tastes, the chromatic fantasies. I had one memorised about 30 years ago, but just can't imagine memorising it again, more's the pity.

Conall
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Re: Dowland, John - Lachrimae Pavan - 10-string Guitar - Video

Post by Conall » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:21 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:06 pm
Yes, they are wonderful, especially, for my tastes, the chromatic fantasies. I had one memorised about 30 years ago, but just can't imagine memorising it again, more's the pity.
Memorise? Who said anything about memorising ha ha! Well yes, I guess "learning properly" could be taken to include memorisation. But I meant deciding on the interpretation & fingering etc rather than what I usually do - sight-reading.

I'm considering buying the expensive Poulton edition having played a few from it before & wanting a fairly authoritative complete edition that includes staff, fr tab and a clear indication of the low basses often missing from guitar editions.

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