D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

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Jean-François Delcamp
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D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:50 am

Hello everyone,
Please start by downloading the latest version of volume D01.
If you are new to the course, please read this message to familiarize yourself with the conditions for participating in the lessons. You should also read the first message in lesson 1, where you will find advice on how to make the most of your study time and on the methods of practising that I recommend.

First we will study some technical exercises from volume D01.
Page 57 - Jean-François Delcamp : ARPEGGIOS




Finally, we'll look at five tunes, pages 39 to 43.
Page 39 - Anonyme : Menuet en ré majeur

Page 40 - Anonyme : Danse anglaise

Page 41 - Jean-François Delcamp : Accompagnement de blues

Page 42 - Anonyme : Fais dodo, Colas mon p'tit frère

Page 43 - Joseph Küffner : Duo opus 168 N°15



In order to mark the beat yourself, you need to count the smallest rhythmic values out loud as you play, as indicated on the score: "1 e 2 e 3 e" ("1 and 2 and 3 and" in English)
Using a metronome is useful, but it is only a temporary crutch to lean on. You will benefit far more by counting the beats out loud as you play than by using a metronome. Internalizing the rhythm allows us in time to achieve both freedom and discipline when playing, that is, to be a musician.
If counting the smallest values out loud seems difficult, or very difficult, to you, it only means that you have to persevere, or persevere a lot more. Keep at it with determination until it becomes easy and natural for you. When, after having practised it long enough, this exercise of counting out loud while you play becomes easy, then you don't need to bother with it any more.
When you start working on a new piece, start by working very slowly, concentrating on precision. The essential thing is that you should play the music perfectly, that your rhythm should be precise, your sound well controlled, and your playing musical and expressive.
Speed will come with your new skills acquired in time through work. You should not worry about speed when tackling a new piece. At the beginning, such a preoccupation would only hinder you in your progress. It is only once you have mastered the piece within the comfort of a slow tempo, that you can start to think about playing progressively faster until finally you reach the right tempo.

You can memorize different tempi (tempos) by mentally associating each one with a tune you have learnt by heart. Learn a suitable tune for each tempo. Begin with Good-morning to all (the same tune as Happy Birthday) for the tempo of 120 (beats per minute).



I ask you first to work on all these exercises and tunes for a week and then to upload your recordings of:
Page 57, number 12 - Jean-François Delcamp : ARPEGGIOS
Page 39 - Anonyme : Menuet en ré majeur
Page 42 - Anonyme : Fais dodo, Colas mon p'tit frère


Good luck!


I thank Geoff (GeoffB) who has helped in the translation of my lessons into English.


Jean-François

---

Exam qualifying submissions:

ARPEGGIOS
Menuet en ré majeur
Fais dodo, Colas mon p'tit frère
:( + ♫ = :)

Jules Wilkins

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Jules Wilkins » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:58 pm

I have some questions for anyone who reads this and might know the answer.
As background, I find the suggested fingerings for "Menuet en re majeur" to be awkward and sub-optimal. For the left hand it is much easier to simply play the entire piece in second position. As for the right hand, my fingers simply do not want to continually alternate iam, iam, etc. On some measures my fingers can accept that, but on others my fingers fight against cooperation tooth and nail...well, the nail part anyway :wink:
So I suppose there are four questions here:
1) In general terms, is it important to train ones left hand to use the suggested fingering? This will of course slow the progress of learning a piece dramatically, but perhaps the journey will better train the hand to do what its owner wants as opposed to what it wants to do and this might perhaps make future pieces easier to learn. In the example piece I suppose one would be practicing shifting back and forth between first and second position...not necessary for this piece but might be a valuable skill for some future piece.
2) Same question for the right hand. The example piece is easy enough if I let my left hand fingers find their own way but, for me, it becomes extremely difficult if I try to force myself to use the suggested fingering. Against that I practice my tremolo nearly every session but am a long way from success and this is arguably because I haven't learned how to take control of my right hand, and forcing myself to use the suggested fingering might perhaps be the missing key.
3) Do I need to adopt the suggested LH fingering to pass the exam?
4) Do I need to adopt the suggested RH fingering to pass the exam? :?: :?: :?:

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Ken Kim
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Ken Kim » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:18 pm

Jules Wilkins wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:58 pm
I have some questions for anyone who reads this and might know the answer.
As background, I find the suggested fingerings for "Menuet en re majeur" to be awkward and sub-optimal. For the left hand it is much easier to simply play the entire piece in second position. As for the right hand, my fingers simply do not want to continually alternate iam, iam, etc. On some measures my fingers can accept that, but on others my fingers fight against cooperation tooth and nail...well, the nail part anyway :wink:
So I suppose there are four questions here:
1) In general terms, is it important to train ones left hand to use the suggested fingering? This will of course slow the progress of learning a piece dramatically, but perhaps the journey will better train the hand to do what its owner wants as opposed to what it wants to do and this might perhaps make future pieces easier to learn. In the example piece I suppose one would be practicing shifting back and forth between first and second position...not necessary for this piece but might be a valuable skill for some future piece.
2) Same question for the right hand. The example piece is easy enough if I let my left hand fingers find their own way but, for me, it becomes extremely difficult if I try to force myself to use the suggested fingering. Against that I practice my tremolo nearly every session but am a long way from success and this is arguably because I haven't learned how to take control of my right hand, and forcing myself to use the suggested fingering might perhaps be the missing key.
3) Do I need to adopt the suggested LH fingering to pass the exam?
4) Do I need to adopt the suggested RH fingering to pass the exam? :?: :?: :?:
Hi, Jules.
Well, there are some awkward LH fingerings before lesson 8. Now RH fingerings come with sudden 'a' between 'i' and 'm'. It is bit strange but I got used to this 'a' already. It is great you found out about second position. Never considered to play in second position, even though most of G-major piece suggest second position. I'll try to play in second position too. If you can find out different position would be easier to play, you are certainly not supposed to be in level 1. :D Intention of lesson 01-08 seems to me that focused on 2 things, which damp 5th strings after 4th string 'p' plucking and introduce use of 'a' . To be honest, RH 'a' fingering isn't really neccesary for "Menuet en re majeur" to play. There might be an advanced piece "Menuet en re majeur" needs of 'a'. If it isn't, it just makes us paractice 'a'. I got no answers for question 3 and 4, but send pm and ask to our moderator John Montes about it. I think a qualification for certificate is 7 times of uploaded submissions required for each lesson, which you have done already and it just leave us final exam on May next month. Have a great practice day! :bye:
Last edited by Ken Kim on Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ken Kim
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Ken Kim » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:15 am

Jules Wilkins wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:58 pm
I have some questions for anyone who reads this and might know the answer.
I tried second position to play Menuet en re majeur. It surely is easier to play since this piece doesn't need first fret at all.



I uploaded to let you see my fingering, Jules. I tried to play exactly same fingering and damping as score say. Not ready and fast enough to submit this piece, but I hope you can have some idea.
Ken
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MikeTaylor
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by MikeTaylor » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:31 pm

Jules Wilkins wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:58 pm
I have some questions for anyone who reads this and might know the answer.
As background, I find the suggested fingerings for "Menuet en re majeur" to be awkward and sub-optimal. For the left hand it is much easier to simply play the entire piece in second position. As for the right hand, my fingers simply do not want to continually alternate iam, iam, etc. On some measures my fingers can accept that, but on others my fingers fight against cooperation tooth and nail...well, the nail part anyway :wink:
So I suppose there are four questions here:
1) In general terms, is it important to train ones left hand to use the suggested fingering? This will of course slow the progress of learning a piece dramatically, but perhaps the journey will better train the hand to do what its owner wants as opposed to what it wants to do and this might perhaps make future pieces easier to learn. In the example piece I suppose one would be practicing shifting back and forth between first and second position...not necessary for this piece but might be a valuable skill for some future piece.
2) Same question for the right hand. The example piece is easy enough if I let my left hand fingers find their own way but, for me, it becomes extremely difficult if I try to force myself to use the suggested fingering. Against that I practice my tremolo nearly every session but am a long way from success and this is arguably because I haven't learned how to take control of my right hand, and forcing myself to use the suggested fingering might perhaps be the missing key.
3) Do I need to adopt the suggested LH fingering to pass the exam?
4) Do I need to adopt the suggested RH fingering to pass the exam? :?: :?: :?:
Hello Jules,

I cannot comment specifically on the pieces in lesson 8 since I am still catching up and only working on lesson 5 at the moment and have not attempted the lesson 8 pieces yet. I can however comment on the general substance of your questions based on my past experiences.

1. I do not think that the specific suggested fingering is that important unless the piece is an etude with a specifically stated purpose to train a particular movement or concept such as for example an "etude to train thumb rest stroke" should obviously be played with the thumb no matter how difficult. In the end our objective here is not to learn to follow directions precisely, but rather to learn to make music. My prior instructors frequently advised me to disregard suggested fingerings if they were not appropriate for my anatomy or my skill level, or if I was just able to play more musically with an alternate fingering. I would say that if you find a fingering too difficult at your current level then play it in a way that you are able and as you advance you will acquire more skill which will allow you to incorporate the more difficult fingerings in the future. I would worry more about what you are able to play now and taking baby steps forward rather than worry about how a skill that you are not using presently may or may not be required in the future.

2. same answer as above, with the additional comment that training the independence of the 'a' finger is a challenge in the beginning and if I were going to alter a piece to allow me to play it more freely I would make certain that I was doing other exercises to train the 'a' finger.

3 and 4. I may be mistaken but it seems to me that it was stated that audio recordings are acceptable for the exam as they are in the lessons. If I am correct in my recollection then the fingerings would not matter because they could not be assessed. The evaluation would be based on the quality of your playing only. I am not completely certain that is true though so I would definitely confirm that with the moderators. I have not yet begun to think towards the exam because I am not certain that I will have enough submissions to qualify, although I expect to have lesson 5 posted in the next couple of days and so maybe I will make it....in which case I will have to find out the correct rules.

Mike
“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to"
"I don't much care where–"
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Jules Wilkins

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Jules Wilkins » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:48 pm

Ken Kim wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:15 am

I uploaded to let you see my fingering, Jules. I tried to play exactly same fingering and damping as score say. Not ready and fast enough to submit this piece, but I hope you can have some idea.
You managed to achieve perfect LH fingering at a constant tempo. I could not come close at first, but with perseverance I managed the first half and with just a few measures to go I am sure I can manage the rest. My goal is to submit a decent recording with the suggested RH fingering...but I am not going to try to adopt the LH for that is too much to work on at the same time. Remembering to damp while doing something that explicitly seems awkward is difficult enough.
I suspect it would not matter for the exam but am still not sure, and I am sure the music cops will not be dragging me away if I simply do what comes naturally so long as it works. But at the same time I cannot help but suspect that by forcing oneself to strictly follow the suggested fingerings has to be a useful exercise. Why is it difficult for me? Clearly I do not have full control over my right hand fingers. Is full control a good thing? Clearly yes.
One thing I have read is that when you are trying to achieve speed you should be consistent in your fingering. After all, you are basically going for muscle memory and if you keep changing the fingering then you are confusing the muscles.
I don't neglect "a" and typically use it in scale exercises and slur exercises, but I have been neglecting strict adherence to suggested fingerings and that may not be such a good idea. I think I should conquer the suggested fingering and if it is still awkward go for what comes more natural.

Colin Bullock
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Colin Bullock » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:55 pm

Please read the new post here viewtopic.php?f=41&t=119448 which describes what you need to do for the exam

The exam piece is announced here viewtopic.php?f=41&t=54023&start=885#p1271222

Good luck with the exam.

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Ken Kim
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Ken Kim » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:19 pm

My submissions for this month.


Arpeggios #12

Menuet en re majeur

Fais dodo, colas mon p'tit frere

Good luck on your final exam, everybody.
Ken
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by MikeTaylor » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:47 pm

Well played Ken.

I hope to have mine posted in the next few days.

Mike
“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to"
"I don't much care where–"
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

MikeTaylor
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by MikeTaylor » Wed May 02, 2018 2:39 pm

Attached are my submissions for lesson 8.

Good luck to all on the exam.

Mike
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to"
"I don't much care where–"
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Ken Kim
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Ken Kim » Wed May 02, 2018 7:03 pm

MikeTaylor wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:39 pm
Attached are my submissions for lesson 8.

Good luck to all on the exam.

Mike
Nicely, played. It is beautiful and smooth legato. :bravo: :guitare:

Ken
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