D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

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George Karpenkov

Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by George Karpenkov » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:04 pm

Hi gang,

Another late submission, Paganini's Le Streghe. There are still some errors, but I think I have to stop at that...

[media]https://youtu.be/IUXzokEz67U[/media]

It is interesting to note that the score does not correspond to M. Delcamp performance: in the score there is extra repetition of the major section (starting from the arpegio), which is not present in the M. Delcamp recording.
I have used the score version as the reference (as far as I can see everyone else did the same), though personally I prefer the version with less repetitions more --- it gets quite monotonic after a while (well maybe that's a result of playing the same thing over and over for so many times...)

As a side note, I prefer to play form the memory rather than from the score, and this piece was really difficult to memorize due to all the subtle variations (my muscle memory just kept telling me the wrong notes...)

George Karpenkov

Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by George Karpenkov » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:14 pm

Mark,

very nice performance overall, there were a few small glitches here and there but I think those are obvious...
I like the slide around the high B in the minor section -- M. Delcamp plays it as well I think, but it's not in the score.... What is it, sliding from the 7th note to 6th slightly, or are my ears betraying me?

George Karpenkov

Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by George Karpenkov » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:16 pm

Cat,

Nice performance! I think the rhythm is floating a bit though, esp. in the first part.
The pauses between the different sections are sometimes too long, and there are a few just-too-long breaks in the minor section.

George Karpenkov

Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by George Karpenkov » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:18 pm

John,

very nice!
Minor section feels a bit weaker than the major, with a few rhythm breaks..

Mark Bacon
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Mark Bacon » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:46 pm

George,

I'm glad you feel the same as I do about the Paganini piece-it's hard to memorize! (the minor section is, anyway).

If you keep working on this piece (I'm done with it-played it too much! :chaud: ) I'd say try to observe more of the rests in the bassline. It's definitely the hardest part of the piece to do so. The melody gets a little choppy in the minor section. I worked hard to prevent that, possibly resulting in some of the slides that you commented on. Thank you, by the way!

Are you playing the arpeggio correctly in measure 17? It almost sounds minor like you aren't sharpening the A. Your tempo jumped up quite a bit in measure 39-but I'm not sure if it wasn't intentional as Mr DelCamp did in his performance for some of the phrase ending arpeggios.

Lastly-a long time ago when I had a teacher he'd not allow me to tap my foot to keep time, claiming it can be distracting. There were quite a few audible foot taps as you no doubt were trying to get that 6/8 bouncy feel. 8) During my lessons we did a lot of work with a metronome-it really helps a lot (but it sure can be frustrating!) Come to think of it, I think I should dust it off!

Congrats though. It's a tricky little piece!

Mark

George Karpenkov

Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by George Karpenkov » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:12 pm

hi Mark,

1. I agree on your note with the foot taps, it is a bit distracting. I was working with metronome quite a bit, but I think I haven't used it much last two months or so, may be I should turn it back.
I think it is useful to switch between different modes: e.g. I've found that when playing with other people I sometimes have to adjust my timing to the other person, even if I might be sure that my timing is more "right".

2. Paradoxically I have found the minor section much easier, maybe because I like it more?

Thanks for the detailed comments!

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:20 pm

Here my recordings for the third lesson. Le Streghe arpeggios proved to be as difficult as two years ago, although this time I chose to play them with strict i-m alternation without using any sweeping strokes with i or m fingers, the way I previously did. There's the moment of confusion in my recording just before the repeat of the 2nd major section where I fully expected to fail miserably with that arpeggio, and it not happening caught me off guard and for a moment I had no idea what was I supposed to play next :)

I have already began my studies of the next lesson, and will try to post recordings for that before the next weekend, which should get me to the current lesson just before the next one comes out.

Carulli, Ferdinando - Prelude opus 114 n°7
[media]https://youtu.be/iyNt_oo10fU[/media]

Paganini, Niccolò - Ghiribizzo n°17 Le Streghe
[media]https://youtu.be/H7kDvTuvnJs[/media]

Morin, Ludovic-Alexandre - Petite étude
[media]https://youtu.be/s1DfjT7Fkmo[/media]

Thank you for listening and comments!
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Mark Bacon
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Mark Bacon » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:58 am

Marko,

These are all pretty good. Perhaps noteworthy is your adherence to the shortened bass notes in the Paganini piece. The arpeggios were pretty clean, too. I felt that your tempo drifted a bit too much in the minor section, and not just the phrase ending accelerations (I'm guessing were intentional just as Mr DC did). Good job nailing the tricky harmonics on the Morin piece.

That's about all I can offer up!

Mark

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:21 am

Thanks Mark! You're right regarding the minor section in Le Streghe, and thanks for pointing it out! There are some hesitations related to position shifts, which combined with all the intentional tempo changes makes it sound like I'm undecided about the tempo I want to play it. It turned out pretty far from the way I hear it in my head :) I guess the main issue is that the major parts with their arpeggios require so much concentration that when I get to the minor part, I tend to lose focus easily. I also find the minor part more difficult to give musical interpretation that will sound interesting than the major part. To put it in simpler terms, more practice required. I may return to it later, and try to post a more polished version, but right now I'll concentrate on the next lesson pieces.

Thanks again!

Marko
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Mark Bacon
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Mark Bacon » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:45 am

Marko,

I think Cat and I felt the same way. We'd go back and forth in thinking that the repeated bass notes should be staccato or let them ring. Sometimes I'd play it one way and then other times the other. So then when it was time to record I'd also feel unfocussed "how am I gonna do it this time??" I could easily see how that would lead to tempo fluctuations-as does any other loss of focus. As with most Paganini assignments I'm usually glad to put them behind me. Sadly though-that means I should work on them more! :contrat:

Mark

Catherine Livingston

Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Catherine Livingston » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:12 pm

Marko,
:bravo: your posts sound beautiful. :casque: These remind me that once can spend much more time on these pieces than I have been able to. I don't feel as if I can do much justice with my comments but here goes....

Carulli Prelude 114 n 7-

You played with good expression. The dynamics you incorporate add "feeling" to the piece. Very nice to listen to

Paganini n 17 Le Streghe-

Tightly played with damping, etc. It almost sounds like the recording by JF Delcamp. I sensed you didn't enjoy playing this one as much as the others but it sounds good nonetheless. I finally got to the point that I needed a break from this piece but I appreciate the skills that I acquire from the Paganini pieces.

Morin, Petit Etude-
Played with great expression and tone. This reminds me that some pieces sound best when played slowly. This was my favorite piece of week 3.

I am looking forward to hearing your week 4 submissions.
:D Cat Livingston

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Marko Räsänen » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:48 pm

Thank you for your comments, Cat!

It's always a difficult decision whether to spend some more time practicing a given piece or to move on. I think generally people will easily plateau with the piece unless there is some guidance on what to work with. But it's been interesting to note that revising these pieces after a couple of years will provide a different set of challenges.

You're right that I didn't enjoy Paganini piece as much as the others. I felt I had less freedom to play around with it compared to other pieces, and on the other hand it was technically more demanding, so I was a bit more tense when recording it. Mind you, still it was nowhere near as frightening and difficult recording as it was two years ago.

Marko
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EricKatz
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by EricKatz » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:21 pm

Here are my submissions for lesson 3.

[media]https://youtu.be/pwSsPDv3v_M[/media]

[media]https://youtu.be/E2eq8YCuoaE[/media]

[media]https://youtu.be/Jo05rOfM3mM[/media]

Thanks for listening. Comments are welcome! :bye:

Just found out I ommitted the first 7 bars of Le Streghe when editing the piece in Moviemaker.
All raw material has been thrown away, so I can't repair this at the moment. :chaud:
For those who bother: listen to the second repeat, where those bars happily survived :lol:

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Mark Bacon » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:38 am

Eric,

Glad you're still plugging along. Keep at it!

I think you play the wrong chord in the Carulli piece in measure 9.

In the morin piece the bass note is C# in measure 15, then a C natural in 16. You play natural both times and lose that dramatic walk down in the bass C#, C, B.

With Paganini there's just a few memory lapses in the minor part. A lot of us struggled with that. Otherwise that section had some tasty expression with rubato, etc. Lastly we discussed the shortened bass notes during the major sections giving the required "bounce" and I think that you nailed it for the most part, possibly at the expense of the upper voice being too choppy most of the time for my taste.

Otherwise... :bravo:

Mark

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by EricKatz » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:07 am

Thanks for your comment, Mark!

You're right about the chord in bar 9 (Carulli). I played d instead of c' sharp. I have been doing that from the moment I learned the piece. At a certain point in time you don't look at each individual note but just play a chord. I'm very glad you pointed out I learned it wrong. It not only sounds better, but is also easier to play!

I had already spot the mistake in the last bar of Morin's Petite Etude when I listened to the recordings of you and the other students of D04. I like to practise and record before listening to the others. Again something that was introduced once and become leading it's own life. Maybe the ressemblance between bar 7-8-9 and 25-26-27 put me on the wrong trail (although I noticed the difference between bar 9 and 27).

I'm glad that I succeeded to make an acceptable recording of this Paganini piece. It's technically very demanding, but musically very poor. I could hardly motivate myself to study the piece. [OMG there's another Paganini piece in lesson 4!]

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