Weiss London MS now online

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RobMacKillop
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Weiss London MS now online

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:06 am

The British Library has put the entire London manuscript of Weiss online for viewing and also download. It's a very high-quality scan:

http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81 ... 354%2C5386

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:30 am

Have you succeeded in downloading it Rob?

It's failed three times for me ... as it happens I already have the complete scan from a few years ago so no real problem, but this new one is cropped in a more elegant manner. Purely aesthetic improvement of course but it would be nice to "upgrade".

RobMacKillop
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:58 am

I haven't tried, Mark. I was going to do it this evening. I'll let you know if I succeed.

soltirefa
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by soltirefa » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:45 pm

Here's a source I stumbled onto one day,


Link failed. I guess it's not allowed here.

Google, "Igor Varfolomeev's site about lute and guitar music."

RobMacKillop
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:51 pm

The British Library source does indeed have an issue with downloading. I'm informed that knowledgeable minds are set to the task!

RobMacKillop
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:47 pm

It's working now!

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:00 pm

Cool - thanks for the info Rob.

Luis_Br
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by Luis_Br » Tue May 21, 2019 6:47 pm

Just informing a nice way to read through this directly on the guitar.
Tune it to E1, A1, C2, E2, A2,C3. A capo on 5th fret would reach the baroque tuning, but you can put a capo on the 2nd fret for a lower sound.
There is a nice thesis from Brazilian guitarist Renato Cardoso with tips and tricks on how to adapt the basses on the fly while reading the tablature.
Here the result, as he reads through a suite:

Here the link to the thesis, in portuguese, but with several charts and notes on the adaptations, maybe you can understand only through them:
https://repositorio.unesp.br/handle/11449/110648

I miss those low dark basses, but the result is nice, preserving some features like the campanelas and so on, besides the ability to read through almost any piece directly, with little transcription effort.

Conall
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by Conall » Tue May 21, 2019 8:28 pm

Damn!

Now I need a 13 string Dresden.....

RobMacKillop
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by RobMacKillop » Tue May 21, 2019 9:09 pm

It's nice, of course, as the music is nice. A bit out of tune, maybe, but definitely nice. So much better than David Russell playing in standard tuning? I remain to be convinced. But it's nice.

Conall
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by Conall » Wed May 22, 2019 11:10 am

I'm wondering:

I have an 8 string sitting unused at the moment.

While I'm enjoying making transcriptions for my 11 string (normally tuned EBGDAE DCBAG) & don't want to use Baroque Dm lute tuning on it (because I use the 11 string for all other guitar music too) I'm thinking it would be fun to try Dm tuning on my 8 string.

If so how would you recommend stringing it?

My initial thoughts are (strings 1-8):

f=E 1st low tension up a semitone,
d=E 1st high tension down a tone,
a=B 2nd high tension down a tone
f=G 3rd extra high tension down a tone
d=D 4th normal tension as is
a=A 5th normal tension as is
g=A 5th high tension down a tone
c=C 8th normal tension (on the guitar at the moment).

What do you think?

It should work for 11 course baroque lute tab surely - I'd just have to fret the open lute bass strings between low C & G?

RobMacKillop
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 am

I tried that on an 8-string, same tuning you mention, and found it a real pain. But you might think otherwise. Of course, I had been spoiled by playing real baroque lutes, which most certainly coloured my opinion of the 8-string. I suggest you play all your regular repertoire on your 8-string, and tune your 11-string relative to Dm baroque tuning, though it would be very low in pitch.

Conall
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by Conall » Wed May 22, 2019 12:52 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 am
I tried that on an 8-string, same tuning you mention, and found it a real pain. But you might think otherwise. Of course, I had been spoiled by playing real baroque lutes, which most certainly coloured my opinion of the 8-string. I suggest you play all your regular repertoire on your 8-string, and tune your 11-string relative to Dm baroque tuning, though it would be very low in pitch.
If my 8 string was good enough to want to play it all the time (it's a student guitar not a luthier made )I might try what you suggest but I've invested heavily in trying to get used to the 11 string in its present tuning - in that I've arranged and am learning music by Bach, Weiss, Dowland & normal 6 string guitar pieces on it & don't want to change now (I'd have to re-arrange some of the pieces / lose out on some of those wonderful low basses).

I understand what you are saying about your experience with 8 string & baroque lute tuning - but it has to be more effective than the 6 string Dm tuning on the video on this thread surely? It's just a thought - for fun and to see if I like playing in Dm tuning and if I do, consider saving up for another 11 string (maybe alto) or 13 string in Dm tuning.

P.s. thanks for your input!

soltirefa
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by soltirefa » Wed May 22, 2019 2:02 pm

My initial thoughts are (strings 1-8):

f=E 1st low tension up a semitone,
d=E 1st high tension down a tone,
a=B 2nd high tension down a tone
f=G 3rd extra high tension down a tone
d=D 4th normal tension as is
a=A 5th normal tension as is
g=A 5th high tension down a tone
c=C 8th normal tension (on the guitar at the moment).
You can also get individual D'Addaro strings to get diameters between those regular set strings. Ascertain the diameter of the regular string by looking at the "full set" information. Then you can go up or down from that in the individual string selection.

https://www.stringsbymail.com/classical ... ngles-114/

PS. I have been thinking of getting the strings necessary to string up my 11-string alto guitar in D minor tuning. My only reservation is I am reluctant to divert my time and focus to learning to read tab and new pieces. My curiosity whether it would work is very high though.

Conall
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Re: Weiss London MS now online

Post by Conall » Wed May 22, 2019 2:51 pm

soltirefa wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:02 pm

PS. I have been thinking of getting the strings necessary to string up my 11-string alto guitar in D minor tuning. My only reservation is I am reluctant to divert my time and focus to learning to read tab and new pieces. My curiosity whether it would work is very high though.
Rob & others who know more of Dm tuning etc than myself will be able to confirm but I believe Dm tuning on your alto should work well with the appropriate strings.

I wouldn't worry about the time it takes to learn French lute tab - it's very easy & hardly more difficult than guitar tab (just alphabetical letters instead of numbers).

Learning new pieces - and with the composer's own positions - is the main attraction for me!

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