Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Creating a home studio for recording the classical guitar. Equipment, software and recording techniques. Amplification for live performance.
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rojarosguitar
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:07 pm

In times of digital audio I would do the filtering in the post production; once you have committed a bass cut to 'tape' there is nothing you can do to restore not recorded frequencies.

But if you find during mastering there is too much going on in the LF band you can EQ it to taste.
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konstantine
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by konstantine » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:01 am

rojarosguitar wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:53 am
I'm very interested in your future results, Konstantin, you do great work and your playing is more than very enjoyable.

Well, even a bit of reverb is more than just a sound tail after the actual sound; it acts also as a kind of EQ smoothing out some harshness, that's why I said in my post, add a pinch of reverb ...

Personally I would always prefer some kind of stereo recording, even if the mono mic is of much higher quality; the spatial clues and spaciousness of sound are very essential to enjoyment of music. At the end of the day I don't see having a stereo mic or a pair of SDC togather with a good quality mobile recorder allowing for external mics, like DR-40, H4n and many more, as much more cumbersome than anything else one could do. It's set up quickly and doesn't take up much space. CM3 or Superlux S502 would be cheap mobile solutions; Rode NT 4 etc... upwards no limits.

I think it's also a matter of the appreciation of one's own work to record it in best possible work. Recently we had a little concert and Initially I planned to use my DR-40, but than I thought, what the heck, it's a uique situation, let's record it properly, and I brought my Tascam HS-P82 (which is a machine of superb (to say the least) sonic quality, but a bit on the heavy side for a mobile recorder) and a Neumann USM69 ... I think it was worth the little bit extra effort! see here (well, might not be your music :D) :

[media]https://youtu.be/c8RGO2Gktc0[/media]
Thank you!

Reverb can be a kind of EQ but thats also true for real spaces with nice (or not so) acoustic properties. Furthermore when recording in small rooms with directional microphones at 40-50cm from our guitars the sound can be too direct, not very similar to how one experiences sound standing even just 1 meter away and depending on the room, placing the microphones at let say 1 meter is not an option though, because early reflections will blur the sound too much.

A couple of CM3s and a Tascam or Zoom are not difficult to carry, but bringing the mics, recorder, stand, stereo-bar, XLR cables, batteries means that I plan to do some kind of recording and when I plan to do a location recording I'm not shy to carry a full cart of equipment:

[media]https://youtu.be/6-sPkfgKqgA[/media]

Btw, I think your clip with the USM69 suffers a little with what I'm describing on the first paragraph, the acoustics of the room and the resonance of the low bowed notes are too dominant in the recording! Does it sound sweeter that how it would sound with the onboard mics of a Tascam or Zoom recorder? Probably yes but not by far since the acoustics of the room don´t help.

Microphone placement is the key, no matter if you record with an iPhone, a USB mic, a portable recorder or a pair of high end condenser microphones!

Video people and mobile recordists always say that the best camera/microphone is the one you have with you. In that mindset, I always want to have with me the best possible equipment I can, but thats not always possible and something like the Mic+ can stay in my guitar case.

Arash Ahmadi wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:12 pm
A very nice recording! Here is my recording on Zoom H6. It's been set on studio mode and low cut 155hz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-6Ch5Eg7vk
Thank you Arash, I also think that low cut at 155hz is too high for guitar, I usually set low cut filters at 78hz or even lower.

Konstantine

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Arash Ahmadi
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by Arash Ahmadi » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:17 am

rojarosguitar wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:07 pm
In times of digital audio I would do the filtering in the post production; once you have committed a bass cut to 'tape' there is nothing you can do to restore not recorded frequencies.

But if you find during mastering there is too much going on in the LF band you can EQ it to taste.
Quite right!
To send light into the darkness of men's heart, such is the duty of the artist. (Robert Schumann)

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by rojarosguitar » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:40 pm

@ Konstantine: yes the room was difficult (a lot of glass and a unsupportive geometry), and also I intended a mix which cuts through on Youtube with al the bad or mediocre devices playing it back.
Still I think it's ways better than what it would have been with any of the Zooms or Tascam mobile recorders with inbuilt mics. You realize that especially when you listen for the spaciousness and transparency...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents

konstantine
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by konstantine » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:38 pm

It took me longer that I thought to finally put it together, but here it is:



Konstantine

Rasputin
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by Rasputin » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:02 pm

Interesting review, thanks. I thought the CM3 sounded very clinical at first but now I think it is just the contrast with the Mic+. I like the idea of a mic small enough that it is not a problem to carry a couple of them, but if that's the basic idea then someone also needs to come up with a small interface that has more than one input (maybe someone already has...).

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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:44 pm

Great review, Konstantin! ... I'm making the same points since many years on this forum. Any of the hand held recorders is more than good enough to document your work, even to produce a decent demo, but none of them will suffice to produce a commercial album.
I'd like to emphasize very strongly the aspect of not being forced to be a techie when you use a mobile recorder t record yourself. Just one button ant here you go,you can fully concentrate on your playing ... it's the greatest invention since the invention of the radio!

Even one Neumann alone would be not enough for the latter, you'd have to have probably two of them and a very decent preamp on top of it, plus good converters and a reliable digital recorder or DAW. So this is, as you rightly said, another story.

As to all the takes you presented the actual difference via my Sony Headphones (no Walkman headphones, real ones) the difference is not that huge, and the sound is mostly dominated by your beautiful playing. Only the CM3 stand out a bit; I found the high frequencies a bit brittle; I have a pair myself and I find they are quite picky as to the proper positioning. Didn't like them too much in ORTF or XY. At te moment I use them as tom mics in my drum kit...

Thanks for your helpful work!
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents

konstantine
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by konstantine » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:52 pm

Rasputin wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:02 pm
Interesting review, thanks. I thought the CM3 sounded very clinical at first but now I think it is just the contrast with the Mic+. I like the idea of a mic small enough that it is not a problem to carry a couple of them, but if that's the basic idea then someone also needs to come up with a small interface that has more than one input (maybe someone already has...).
The CM3s are indeed very uncoloured almost to a fault maybe, the size and the price are perfect and they sound quite good as a pair. Here is a test of them:


For ultimate portability, the Tascam recorders (something like the DR70D or DR100MKIII) might fit the bill, I have a Zoom H5 for that purpose, I don't particulary like the the onboard mics but the preamps are decent enough and the size/battery life is good. I think the tiny LS-P2 performed so good on my test that now I'm intrigued to test the LS-100 as well.

A bus powered interface (like a Focusrite) will be even a better choice, but that means laptop, more cables, etc. My Audient is not bus powered but you can't have anything, right?

rojarosguitar wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:44 pm
Great review, Konstantin! ... I'm making the same points since many years on this forum. Any of the hand held recorders is more than good enough to document your work, even to produce a decent demo, but none of them will suffice to produce a commercial album.

Even one Neumann alone would be not enough for the latter, you'd have to have probably two of them and a very decent preamp on top of it, plus good converters and a reliable digital recorder or DAW. So this is, as you rightly said, another story.

As to all the takes you presented the actual difference via my Sony Headphones (no Walkman headphones, real ones) the difference is not that huge, and the sound is mostly dominated by your beautiful playing. Only the CM3 stand out a bit; I found the high frequencies a bit brittle; I have a pair myself and I find they are quite picky as to the proper positioning. Didn't like them too much in ORTF or XY. At te moment I use them as tom mics in my drum kit...

Thanks for your helpful work!
Thank you Rojaros, thats why I made this test, every option has pros and cons but they all can be usable depending on the context - mic placement and what/how you actually play are far more important. Recording solo CG for an album, stereo is the king of course and I would prefer to use a CM3 stereo pair to a single Neumann, but like you I don't like them in ORTF or XY so much, maybe because of the open cardioid pattern or at least not in my room. I do think they sound good in AB, listen to the video above if you'd like.

Konstantine
Last edited by konstantine on Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

konstantine
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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by konstantine » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:52 pm

please delete
Last edited by konstantine on Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by konstantine » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:54 pm

please delete

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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by Rasputin » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:11 pm

Cheers Konstantine. If anybody else was having the same thought (those Line CM3s are small enough to carry a pair but that means a 2-Ch interface, which is quite bulky), it turns out there are some more portable options available. A friend of mine whose name rhymes with Gooble put me on to the Roland UAS10, the Zoom U24 and the Tascam IUR2.

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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:05 pm

The Roland and the Tascam are discontinued, it seems. I'm not sure if the quality of the Zoom wouldn't defeat it's purpose?
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents

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Re: Recording CG at home, easier than ever?

Post by Rasputin » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:35 pm

So they are - I did see a couple in stock though, and there's always the bay. As for the quality, I haven't got much to go on except brand and price (always dangerous...) The Tascam was very cheap but the Zoom I was looking at was the same price as the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2.

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