amplification

Creating a home studio for recording the classical guitar. Equipment, software and recording techniques. Amplification for live performance.
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bear
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Re: amplification

Post by bear » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:20 pm

Check this out[media]https://youtu.be/kmibLFDbrwU[/media]


AER amp
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: amplification

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:51 am

Thanks for all the replies, a lot of great ideas and food for thought. Much appreciated :)

James
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Re: amplification

Post by James » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:14 pm

I am new to this amplification stuff and am finding it is spinning my head! For classical guitar in a room, such as a restaurant, or art gallery, in which I would be background music, what is preferable? I did the latter recently with my wife on cello. The system I had was hurriedly put together. Maybe not helped by a cheap mic and pre-amp. I have a Laney A1 acoustic amp. Since then I had recommendation for a Shure mic and Fishman pre-amp. Is a pre-amp really necessary? I am really keen to take this next step with my guitar playing, but I find this extra stuff daunting! However I need a reasonable set-up if I want to play in some environments.

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zupfgeiger
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Re: amplification

Post by zupfgeiger » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:27 pm

Two years ago I purchased this external mic/amp system at kentguitars in the UK and I am very satisfied with the results. No reverb, very clean and natural, easy to install. The mic might not be the very best of all, but absolutely sufficient.
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ronjazz
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Re: amplification

Post by ronjazz » Thu May 07, 2015 12:48 am

If you use a small "acoustic" amp like the Roland AC60 and put it on a speaker stand up about 6-7 feet from the floor, you'll find that you will get less feedback and better distribution of the sound, allowing you to lower the volume. Also, I highly recommend the Kremona pickup for amplifying good classical or flamenco guitars: easy installation with no alteration of the instrument whatsoever, a very good sound, and very inexpensive. If you want to really go electric, then install an RMC system into a flamenco negra (flamenco guitars feed back less in the low and midrange). Expensive, but amazing.
Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra
Lester Devoe Flamenco Blanca
Aparicio Flamenco Blanca with RMC pickup
Bartolex 7-string with RMC pickup
Giannini 7-string with Shadow pickup
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danno
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Re: amplification

Post by danno » Mon May 18, 2015 2:31 am

I recently bought a Bose compact L1 along with a decent Yamaha mixer. I love the sound! It makes playing so much more enjoyable on gigs and there is no need for a monitor.
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Filipp
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Re: amplification

Post by Filipp » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:24 am

Feedback issues aside, since you are asking about "most natural" - its going to be a ribbon mic.
"external condensor mic is best for natural sound" - no, my friend. Even low-mid priced ribbon mic will give you results you would not expect. I tried many condenser mics in different gigs, they "do the job" but the most natural, as you want it, will be ribbon.

Try it. Borrow from someone. Most likely you will end up rolling down the bass, add little more trebles and mostly work with the mids.
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Rodman15

Re: amplification

Post by Rodman15 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:14 pm

I have found that a small acoustic amp, such as the Fishman Mini Loudbox and Shure SM 57 mic work quite well. I place the speaker about 10 feet away angled towards one side. I note that Jason Vieaux uses the Fishman Mini when doing ensemble work. Franks advice above is very good.

Bill B
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Re: amplification

Post by Bill B » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:01 pm

I would like to add in that , if you are trying to sound "natural," think about the specifics. Part of "the sound" of a classical guitar is its light, localized sound. if it starts to sound big and powerful (piano like) its no longer natural. if it sounds like its comming from everywhere, not the guy sitting there with the guitar, its not natural. imagine you were trying to con them into thinking it was you playing, but its really a recording. you would try to make it sound at least close to where you are, and at a similar level. I think a speaker placed close to you, not too loud, and aimed at the wall behind you might be a good place to start.
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rojarosguitar
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Re: amplification

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:08 pm

As to microphones I'd suggest a hypercardioid condenser (there are few affordable ones, like Rode, Oktava etc.). Feed back is also greately a problem of wrong speaker placement and unrealistic expectations as to the volume...

PS I should add MBHO modular microphones, which have also hypercardioid capsulas and are certainly very hiqh quality microphones still in the affordable realm.
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Bill B
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Re: amplification

Post by Bill B » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:47 pm

A useful tool for setting up is the digitech jam man, or similar looping device. You can set a loop up, and then walk away and hear what it sounds like. It keeps playing while you fiddle with the doodads.
2013 Angel Benito Aguado
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2handband

Re: amplification

Post by 2handband » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:48 am

This is a tough problem. Credentials: I've been working professionally in popular music for 15 years, mostly as a guitarist but more recently as a sound engineer. Anyway...

Piezoelectric pickups sound bad. All of them. I've mixed FOH sound for literally hundreds of musicians using the damn things, and have never met an exception to the rule. They don't sound at all like an acoustic guitar... the best description I've heard is "acousticish".

Soundhole pickups sound better, but that's only because they're not trying to replicate anything. Basically they're an electric guitar pickup, and that's what they sound like. It might sound good, but it's probably not what you're going for.

A condenser mic on the soundhole is really the only way to get your tone out to the crowd... and now we get to the nasty subject of feedback. Okay... if you're playing to 100 very quiet people in a small space you might be okay. But if I have you into a big PA in front of a noisy crowd we're going to have a problem. That problem is greatly exacerbated if you like a hot monitor mix, and even more so if you're playing as part of a loud band.

Honestly, I don't have an answer... it's one live sound problem that has never been satisfactorily addressed. The sad truth is that nobody is trying; both performers and audiences alike have long since agreed that those terrible sounding piezos are good enough. I use a soundhole pickup when I do solo gigs; it doesn't really sound acoustic but at least it doesn't make me want to poke my brains out with an icepick. In a band situation I never, ever play acoustic... a clean electric sounds much better than any of the available acoustic options. I do get that some guys have no alternative; sometimes it's important that you LOOK acoustic. Actually my own solo gigs are an example of that.

Bill B
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Re: amplification

Post by Bill B » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:54 pm

[quote="2handband"
Soundhole pickups sound better, but that's only because they're not trying to replicate anything. Basically they're an electric guitar pickup, and that's what they sound like. It might sound good, but it's probably not what you're going for.
[/quote]
I agree especially with your assessment of piezoelectric pickups, but the sound hole pickup suggestion baffles me. They don't work with nylon strings.
2013 Angel Benito Aguado
2005 Ramirez R-2

2handband

Re: amplification

Post by 2handband » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:27 am

Bill B wrote:[quote="2handband"
Soundhole pickups sound better, but that's only because they're not trying to replicate anything. Basically they're an electric guitar pickup, and that's what they sound like. It might sound good, but it's probably not what you're going for.
I agree especially with your assessment of piezoelectric pickups, but the sound hole pickup suggestion baffles me. They don't work with nylon strings.[/quote]

Now that you mention it suppose they wouldn't! Sorry, but I simply didn't think about it cus I've never gigged with nylon strings. There really are no good answers here.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: amplification

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:28 am

I have proposed to use a hypercardiod or supercardiod mic and this can be done perfectly well. I use sometimes my 100 Euro active box (tBone) together with a 40 Euro Art tube pre and a Rode supercardiod and one can mix both just so that the accoustic sound is amplified and focussed witoud the whole thing sounding totally artificial. Some small PAs even have a reverb built in if that would suite the purpose...

That's a completely viable way. Of course there are also dedicated amps like those made by Schertler or AER, but the cheapo of active box basically outdid a Schertler double as expensive...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents

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