Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

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Ronald

Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Ronald » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:29 pm

Hello,
To be quite frank, one reason that I really wish to pursue the classical guitar is because I want to play
Barios Allegro Solemne from la cathedral. the other movements are quite nice also.
I am just taken with this piece of music.
Is it unrealistic for me at my age to think that I can learn to play this at a (adequate) level?
We are talking 58 years old.
I have played guitar pretty well all my life.
but with a pick and hybrid picking.
So, classical is really like learning to play this instrument from scratch almost.
Ronald

khayes
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Re: Barios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by khayes » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:06 pm

I would say it's realistic if you take into account your age of 58 and you might have, say, 20 to 30 more years to live - then yes, maybe you can pull it off. That is quite a musical mouthful to bite off if you're starting from scratch. I've been playing for decades and I would not attempt that piece, but you are not me.
Ken

Ronald

Re: Barios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Ronald » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:13 pm

So it's realistic if I have at least 20 years to live.
Thank You so....much
Ronald

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Guido
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Re: Barios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Guido » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:15 pm

It's certainly ambitious, though not impossible. If you have a lot of patience and are willing to put in a lot of hours, you will be able to play it. I play the first two movements myself and they are quite easy, at least compared to the third movement which I've started practicing about a week ago (played it every now and then a bit, but I've started really practicing it just now). This piece is very difficult because of it's tempo. Start slow, build up speed over time. Your right hand will be your biggest challenge here I suspect. Good luck!

Ronald

Re: Barios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Ronald » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:19 pm

Guido,
what transcription are you using, original? what do you suggest.
Whatever Berta Rojas is playing it from would sound good to me,
I suspect she probably plays it quite as Barios intended.
What's out there?
And Thanks for the vote of confidence
Ronald

khayes
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Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by khayes » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:45 pm

HI Ronald - I was just kidding with you, sorry that it came across otherwise. My point is simply that a piece like that is quite daunting for someone beginning CG from scratch. Is it possible? Of course, anything is possible with proper instruction, proper practice, and time. I just think it would be better to begin with pieces more in keeping with your ability. With CG it's important to be making measurable progress. It's easy to get discouraged by attempting to play pieces beyond our level. Just my humble opinion. I wish you the best if you decide to tackle it. There is a score available on this forum.
Ken

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Steve O
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Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Steve O » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:01 pm

I took this on as a 43 year old who started guitar at age 40. I was not/am not a great player and have little natural talent on the guitar. I would say I was an "intermediate beginner" at that time. If you're starting from a more advanced position, you should be able to do this.

I spent a total of about a year with this song. It took quite a while to memorize, then quite a while to improve the playing. After a year I could play it (at about 50% of ridiculously fast tempo that professional players play this at), but a few of the difficult portions were painful to listen to.

I eventually got sick of it and moved on. It was too hard for me at that time.

A few of the sections are a lot of fun to play once you figure out the fingering.

Ronald

Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Ronald » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:15 pm

I have contacted Berta Rojas to see what transcription she is playing.
So, you finally gave up....tabarnac.
Ron

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kloeten
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Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by kloeten » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:18 pm

Ronald wrote:I have played guitar pretty well all my life.
but with a pick and hybrid picking.
In that case the main challenge is your right hand. Villa-Lobos Etude I comes to mind to develop this.
For the scale-like passages I would start with Barrios' Vidalita, an easier piece with similar runs.

Alternatively focus on the Prelude, this is the true gem of the suite in my view, but also requires a sensitive right hand.

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Guido
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Re: Barios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Guido » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:08 pm

Ronald wrote:Guido,
what transcription are you using, original? what do you suggest.
Whatever Berta Rojas is playing it from would sound good to me,
I suspect she probably plays it quite as Barios intended.
What's out there?
And Thanks for the vote of confidence
Ronald
There actually is a recording of Barrios himself playing the 2nd and 3rd movement if you really want to know how he intended it.
I'm not too sure about the rules of posting this kind of stuff so just go to YT and paste at the end of the link: watch?v=sUSknJSDiME

Right now I'm using the transcription from Eythor Thorlaksson which seems to be the same version Berta plays. That said, most versions seem to be the same. The differences I've noticed thus far in performances I've heard are a D chord in 7th position at the end of the first section of the Allegra Solemne instead of a single d note and a few added bass notes in the third section as well as a 3 note chord instead of a single note in the second to last measure. I haven't really analysed any performances or other transcriptions though. I might have heard Williams play a few notes differently as well, but I haven't looked at in depth yet. If anyone knows more about some differences I'm very interested as well.

Ronald

Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Ronald » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:24 pm

Thanks Kloeten,
I have just listened to it.
I love it, which is probably why I love Bach so much.
In the sense that I love music that moves on semi tones.
I will also check that out Guido.
Thanks so much Guys.
Ronald

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David Norton
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Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by David Norton » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:50 pm

The key thing about THIS movement is to really pay attention to the tempo indication: Allegro SOLEMNE. Too many people play it as Allegro Spiritoso or Allegro Festivo (which is how I saw one programme title it).

To my ears, it should move along at a nice clip but not a frenetic pace. Listen to how Barrios himself begins it. Yes he plays it faster and faster as the recording progresses, but there's a reason for this. According to Sila Godoy, on the day of the recording the recording engineer was pointedly looking at the disc master, his wrist watch, and Barrios, and sending the silent message "dude, you're running out of disc space!!" So Barrios fired up the afterburners and made it to the end.
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT
First person to complete the Delcamp "Let's Learn Sor's Opus 60" project

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kloeten
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Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by kloeten » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:43 am

David_Norton wrote:Too many people play it as Allegro Spiritoso or Allegro Festivo (which is how I saw one programme title it).
:D :D :D

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Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by chiral3 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:51 pm

There's some critical tempo where it becomes more rhythmic and percussive. Somewhere between Allegro Festivo and Allegro Warpspeedo

Ronald, I've played this piece (all three sections) for years now. There's a ton written about this, but Barrios had different versions. Richard "Rico" Stover is probably the most well-known Barrios transcriber / aficionado. By the time people are playing this piece they have sufficient mastery and knowledge that they probably mark-up the Stover edition quite a bit. You can approach the third movement like an arpeggio elude, so I don't believe you have to be very proficient to start to practice the piece. However, it is harder to unlearn bad habits and you may get fatigued by the piece if you start it too early. Anyway, check out Stover too.
"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect" - Margaret Mitchell

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Tony Hyman
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Re: Barrios Allegro Solemne from la catedral

Post by Tony Hyman » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:38 pm

Ive been chopping away at this piece for about 12 years now. Ive got it off relatively at half tempo.Its just one of those pieces that I just let grow by itself within my capabilities.I just enjoy the learning of it.I was very pleased to get the geography together at this stage but I havn't pressured myself by achieving a goal by a certain targeted point in time.At the age of 58 I would just start climbing the mountain and who knows where you will end up if you just slowly chisel away and pat yourself on the shoulder as you look back at your progress.The challenge to this Allegro is that it does not conform to the usual under the fingers arpeggios that I have encountered.So typical of Barrios with interesting original sonority on particular fingerings like "Julia Florida".Enjoy!

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