right hand first finger sharp sound

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detwidkul
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right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by detwidkul » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:31 am

Dear all

I always have the problem of the first finger righthand producing sharp and thin sound, the other fingers are fine though. I don't know that because it is weaker than other fingers or is because the tip flesh isa lot harder than other fingers tip . I use a lot of the first finger in daily life including in the fitness gym.

Please share your thoughts

Thank you so much for your input

wit
need to practice more!

Oliver Manning
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by Oliver Manning » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:29 am

Hey there,

Do you play with nail?
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Jack Douglas
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by Jack Douglas » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:58 pm

Not knowing how well you care for your nails or shape them in addition to your hand position and angle of string attack it’s just a wild guess; but for starters just round your nail to the shape of the end of the i (first finger) and then place your hand such that you’re crossing the strings at about a 45 degree angle. Rotate your hand outward toward the right such that when looking down on your hand you see a bit of your palm. This position will have you playing off the middle of the nail rather than the left edge. This will be a good starting point to get rid of the thin tone.
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detwidkul
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by detwidkul » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:42 am

Thank you very much for info

yes I play with both nail and flesh together. correct me if I am wrong,

I try to keep my right wrist not bend ( straight rightwrist ) and I notice that the part of the nail that touch the string start from the left for the first finger and it tend to touch more of the middle part for the second and third finger.

So I I bend the right wrist outward a bit, that should solve the problem of the first finger. but aren't we meant to keep the wrist straight? I am fine with rotating the wrist to the right ( I used to do this before but see the modern approach so I kind wanna follow the science )
Last edited by detwidkul on Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Julian Ward
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by Julian Ward » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:03 am

^ Yes... rotating the wrist to the right (supination) so that the pinky is closer to the soundboard, does indeed fatten the tone. Many players do this without even realising it anyway.
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Jack Douglas
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by Jack Douglas » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:19 pm

detwidkul wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:42 am
Thank you very much for info

yes I play with both nail and flesh together. correct me if I am wrong,

I try to keep my right wrist not bend ( straight rightwrist ) and I notice that the part of the nail that touch the string start from the left for the first finger and it tend to touch more of the middle part for the second and third finger.

So I I bend the right wrist outward a bit, that should solve the problem of the first finger. but aren't we meant to keep the wrist straight? I am fine with rotating the wrist to the right ( I used to do this before but see the modern approach so I kind wanna follow the science )
Sorry I didn’t make it clear that the wrist is kept straight and only the wrist is rotated, therefore abiding by a sound modern approach..
Richard Brune 'Artist' Cedar/Brazilian 1996

hectoring
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by hectoring » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:18 am

I have the same problem but with the "a" finger - I've experimented with different nail shapes but the only thing that really works is rotating the arm as other posters has mentioned. Can be tricky though when switching arm positions from picado runs or tremolo to arpeggios!

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Sebastian
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by Sebastian » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:38 am

Good to know right hand index finger is generally somehow weaker than the other fingers except thumb, somehow (weirdly) I always thought that everyone had a stronger index finger than ring finger for free strokes, and thought that I was weird and my ring finger was just stronger than my index.
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soltirefa
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by soltirefa » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:14 am

Getting the nail smooth can't be underestimated. One time, even though I had sanded my nails before playing, I was getting a bad tone. I got out my nail file and was sure to remove the burrs on the edge of my nail, then sanded it smooth again. Unbelievable difference in tone. Got to get those burrs.

robert e
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by robert e » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:01 pm

Julian Ward wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:03 am
^ Yes... rotating the wrist to the right (supination) so that the pinky is closer to the soundboard, does indeed fatten the tone. Many players do this without even realising it anyway.
Fascinating. It works the other way for me--pronation gets me a fatter tone, supination a thinner tone. Is that because my nails are ramped? (Necessary because my nails are arched and hooked.)

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Julian Ward
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by Julian Ward » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:01 pm

robert e wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:01 pm
Julian Ward wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:03 am
^ Yes... rotating the wrist to the right (supination) so that the pinky is closer to the soundboard, does indeed fatten the tone. Many players do this without even realising it anyway.
Fascinating. It works the other way for me--pronation gets me a fatter tone, supination a thinner tone. Is that because my nails are ramped? (Necessary because my nails are arched and hooked.)
Hi Robert maybe yes. My nails have hooks too, which have got worse through the years. Ramping (for me) makes them worse. I now have a neutral curve and supination gives me a wonderful 'a finger' sound in particular.
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robert e
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by robert e » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:12 pm

Julian Ward wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:01 pm
robert e wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:01 pm
It works the other way for me--pronation gets me a fatter tone, supination a thinner tone. Is that because my nails are ramped?
maybe yes... I now have a neutral curve and supination gives me a wonderful 'a finger' sound in particular.
Oops! After some experimentation I discovered that whenever I supinated my RH, I also unconsciously changed the angle of my wrist and forearm so that I was stroking the string more perpendicularly than usual. This was the cause of the thinner tone. Once I straighten that angle, I do get a fatter tone from supination.

A valuable realization for me. Thanks, all! And apologies for the misinformation.

And now I have yet another excuse to tinker with nail shape! :roll:

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Julian Ward
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by Julian Ward » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:32 pm

No probs. I do think that supination is the answer to a better sound. I have played for over thirty years without doing it and I have been able to convert quite easily over the last few months.
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robert e
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by robert e » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:02 pm

Now that I'm doing it right, it's obvious how supination can help hook-nailed people like me. It moves the hooked center of the nail toward the attack and away from the release, so now it gets pushed into the string edge-on in a way that renders it's "hookedness" irrelevant, and there's no risk of it snagging on release. Brilliant! :casque:

ronjazz
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Re: right hand first finger sharp sound

Post by ronjazz » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:05 am

supination is helpful for dystonia: it gets you to create a "new hand", and the old problems become easier to work around. And we're talking only a few degrees of change, nothing that affects the carpal tunnels or will put a strain in the hand or arm. Thomas Viloteau has some great instruction on that approach.
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