Getting same sound with every finger

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ThePredster

Getting same sound with every finger

Post by ThePredster » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:23 pm

I cant get the same tone from every finger. Mainly the Ring finger. Its always noticebly out there and sounds radically different. I've practiced striking the strings at different place with different parts of the fingers but still no. I've even went as far as to cut my nails all the way down thinking it was a shape issue making it sound so different. Suprisingly it still sounds different and I lost my nails :( Please help. I cant get it to sound even enough. What makes it sound so different?

goragorn

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by goragorn » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:31 pm

Nails are important. What about the longness of your nails ?

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by Erik Zurcher » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:41 pm

Hello goragorn, as a new member will you introduce yourself here? viewforum.php?f=28
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ThePredster

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by ThePredster » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:14 pm

goragorn wrote:Nails are important. What about the longness of your nails ?
It was pretty short. Short enough that it never got stuck and I didnt have to try to hit it with my nail. It'll be a while before it grows back.

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by Erik Zurcher » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:27 pm

ThePredster wrote:I cant get the same tone from every finger. Mainly the Ring finger. Its always noticebly out there and sounds radically different. I've practiced striking the strings at different place with different parts of the fingers but still no. I've even went as far as to cut my nails all the way down thinking it was a shape issue making it sound so different. Suprisingly it still sounds different and I lost my nails :( Please help. I cant get it to sound even enough. What makes it sound so different?
Do you have a teacher? He/she could help you tackle this problem: nail shape, angle of the right hand, etc. Have you tried pushing the string down, towards the sound hole? Try to push it deep down and change the angle until you get a perfect tone. Once you found that tone, you will have found the right angle. Then try the other fingers as well.
Best wishes.
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

frank_fretwork

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by frank_fretwork » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:39 am

By the ring finger I assume you mean the 'a' finger?

i think it's unrealistic to expect to be able get the 'same sound' from each finger, and I guess good rh technique involves working out what is best for you and what you want and can get from your rh fingers.

check out Xuefei Yang playing Villa Lobos Etude No.7 in Turkey on YT. She uses her 'm' (middle finger) to play the melodic line through the slow section and at least from my point of view she has made a deliberate decision to do this based on sound quality because - for me anyway - the easiest way to do it is to play it with the 'a' finger as this seems to follow the natural fall of the fingers on the strings as it were.

also Denis Azabagic's (I think) recommendation for rh in the first section of La Catedral is to use 'm' for the melodic voice, which to me seems counter to the natural order of fingers to strings and so again I feel is a deliberate decision of his based on the quality of tone he can get from m versus a.

Use of m instead of the (to me) more natural falling 'a' for the melodic line in these pieces and others takes more figuring out but results in a much richer sound even for little old me. The 'a' finger always sounds comparatively thinner or at least not as reliable tonewise as 'm' and that's just seems to be a fact of physiology at least in my case anyway.

Cwcary

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by Cwcary » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:17 pm

Dear ThePredster:

Your post really poses three issues, which I will address in turn:

First, should one strive for equality of sound? Yes, In my opnion, it is essential to achieve identical sound (tone) from each of the three (3) fingers, I,M,A. These three will be used to play all manner of note combinations and are your tools with to accomplish this. Without belaboring the point consider how a temelo would sound if two (2) fingers produced the same tone and then came "ole stewball", the ring finger. This would change the sound drastically!

Second, Why is the ring finger the "weak member" of the team? I don't know, but I do know that it is so on everyone I've ever encountered who plays. The upshot is that extra effort will be required. I know in my case I fell into playing Saagreras early on before teacher (BT) and learned to play a rest stroke with the ring finger during appregios, quite well actually, but left me with nice free strokes for I & M but a horrible (for a freestroke) A. So my journey, still on going, may be longer that most.

Third, how does one achieve this unity of sound? Here I absolutely agree with e.zurcher, the use of a qualified teacher will be requred to access and iedntify your problem(s) through actual observation to assist you with identifying and correcting them. The key here is the sound, when all three sound like they are interchangable you are close to perfection with this.

Hope this helps,

CwC

KenK

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by KenK » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:34 pm

Predster-

One cause of uneven tone is when all the fingers don't approach the string from the same angle.
This is very important.

Check the back of your hand when you play.
It should for the most part be parallel to the soundboard.
(Unless you play South American style)

If your hand is at an angle, where the pinky knuckle is closer to the guitar than the index knuckle,
your ring finger won't have the same leverage as the other fingers.
It really needs to have the same angle of attack, especially since it is the "weaker" finger.

If this is your problem, use a small mirror to continuously monitor your RH position.
Changing a basic position issue takes quite a bit of perseverance, because you're struggling w/ habits.

Good Luck,

KenK

Olarte

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by Olarte » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:48 pm

Ah, you have the same "Monkey on your back" that I have, the old a finger for me not only sounds different but like tin on the E string.

You have gotten some great suggestions, and I can vouch for myself that careful study, and a goal towards a consistent sound is all that is needed. It sounds easy, and I suppose it is given the right tools and instruction.

I was lucky enough to find a great teacher who pays a LOT of attention to the quality of every note. With his guidance and detailed work on sound using exercises from Pumping Nylon, and Giuliani's 120 studies I have made tremendous progress to the point that I can now control the quality of the sound I produce in most cases.

While nails are important, it's not as simple as that. I have learned to play fairly consistent when I'm focused, at least compared to 6 months ago, by adjusting the angle of attack ever so slightly with each finger as needed.

You need not just a teacher, but one that will be detailed enough to care and focus on the quality of the sound. As mentioned I found such a teacher, and I for me consistency of the sound was and still is one of the most important goals that I have regarding CG.

So please do not give up, be patient, experiment, and find a qualified instructor to guide you along. You will get there!

frank_fretwork

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by frank_fretwork » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:52 am

for the established concert artists I mentioned there is an obvious preference for the use of m over a for apoyando melodic lines. a is used for tirando notes because when playing tirando tonal differences between fingers become much less pronounced. Look at your hand. Each finger looks different and feels different. You work with and around that.

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Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:15 pm

ThePredster wrote:I cant get the same tone from every finger
Is this a common problem?
Frank, more or less, says the same:
frank_fretwork wrote:i think it's unrealistic to expect to be able get the 'same sound' from each finger
I was always taught to strive for that very thing ... anyone else?

Mark

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lagartija
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Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by lagartija » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:01 pm

My teacher hasn't said anything to me (yet)..... but I try to get exactly the same sound from each finger. I play using a high wrist position and my hand (being what it is) seems to require a slightly longer and different shape nail than the i and m to get the same quality of sound. It takes some experimentation.
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toneslave

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by toneslave » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:45 pm

One of the first things I do when I sit down to practice, and after all the nail filing/buffing has been sorted out, is play the trebles, pima, and decide whether I'm going to quit and take up the cazooo because none of my fingers sound the same. I tinker for quite a while to "try" and achieve sameness of tone whether it's nice or not. I tinker for quite some time just trying to get a single finger to produce good tone, let alone all of them. The CG is the most difficult and interesting instrument to play because of the nuances of the right hand.

ThePredster

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by ThePredster » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:29 am

I've been practicing equal sound tremolo picking/arggeppegios for several hours straight(about 3-4) for several days now with noticable improvement. But I am afraid that all this excess exercise is going to permanantly damage my nerves or muscles. From my elbow up, the muscles are sore. Is there a way a can get in hrs of practice with less pain? I personally work out to help my body work more efficiently on a cardiovascular level. I heard the no pain no gain motto doesnt work to well in guitar playing.

Olarte

Re: Getting same sound with every finger

Post by Olarte » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:15 am

ThePredster wrote:I've been practicing equal sound tremolo picking/arggeppegios for several hours straight(about 3-4) for several days now with noticable improvement. But I am afraid that all this excess exercise is going to permanantly damage my nerves or muscles. From my elbow up, the muscles are sore. Is there a way a can get in hrs of practice with less pain? I personally work out to help my body work more efficiently on a cardiovascular level. I heard the no pain no gain motto doesnt work to well in guitar playing.
You are right, no pain gain is a sure way to pain and frustration, plenty of roadblocks and maybe even temporary or permanent physical damage.

I also think that over doing it will burn you out mentally as well, as you will get bored, and eventually give up.

You are better off doing smaller practice sessions for specific techniques or issues with a plan of attack and specific materials like selected exercises from Pumping Nylon, Kitharologus: The Path to Virtuosity, Giuliani Studies etc.... Give yourself enough time for these skills to develop, and more important than all, get a good qualified instructor that can guide you along, and correct the mistakes before they become bad habits.

It's important that your instructor gel with you in the approach and goals\priorities that you have. In my case for instance, I think both me and my instructor are lucky he is stickler for detail and that is exactly what I was looking for. So I get the kind of guidance that I could not find with other teachers, and he has a student thirsty enough to follow his instructions precisely. We both have a great time, classes usually run for a good 1 1/2 hours and I have done tremendous progress since August because of this.

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