D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

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The classical guitar lessons are free. They are aimed at the isolated amateur who does not have access to a teacher. To join the class, apply for registration into the students group.

PDF, MP3, Vidéos, Lessons : Level D01 - Level D02 - Level D03 - Level D04 - Level D05 - Level D06 - Level D07 - Level D08 - Level D09 - Level D10 - Level D11 - Level D12.
Jules Wilkins
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Jules Wilkins » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:39 pm

James A. Showalter wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:40 am
Jules,
Here I am guessing again. The piece Antonio Cano-Curriella : Leccion I has a G#, but no other #'s. So I suspect the G# may be an addition. Is the piece in Am?
As you seem to already be clear on, one cannot tell what key a piece is being played in by looking at the key signature, because every key signature is used by two keys, one major key and one minor key, which are said to be relatives. As this signature has no sharps or flats it is either CM or Am. Because both keys use the same signature one must then look at the music itself. Often a piece will start and end with a triad chord, such as CM (CEG) or Am (ACE) which will nail the key. This piece opens with two A's (an octave apart), but as John points out, continues with melody lines as opposed to a chord. Still, starting with two A's strongly suggests that the piece is written in Am as opposed to CM.
To further complicate matters, there are three minor keys. Am natural has no sharps or flats. Am melodic sharpens the 6th and 7th notes (F & G) when ascending but reverts to the key signature when descending. Finally, Am harmonic sharpens the 7th (G) throughout while leaving the 6th untouched. You will notice in this piece that G is never played natural but rather is always sharpened whether assenting or descending while F is always left natural. Hence, again as John notes, the key is clearly Am harmonic.
Alas, I am digging into a shallow knowledge pit here having never studied music theory. I do know for example that GM is related to CM and as GM sharpens the F you might find a piece where the key signature is that of CM (and Am) and the key is CM but it wanders off into GM for a spell, and indeed Delcamp give us an example in D02, lesson 5, http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/v ... f=41&t=670 so without knowing what is happening one might be initially puzzled by the presence of F#, but I digress. Hopefully my explanation is basically sound and/or someone will correct me.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

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James A. Showalter
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by James A. Showalter » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:40 pm

Jules,
I, like yourself am self-taught in all of my understanding of music; which is slight. I have digested enough to realize that what you tell is correct. The tricky part for me is recalling the details about the various scale types, in this case the flavors of minor (natural, melodic & harmonic). Hopefully, now that I've seen an application involving them their meaning will stick and I can move on to a better understanding of the other part of your explanation. Realizing when a supporting scale in a particular piece comes into play requires a fundamental perception of the key signature components and having the wherewithal to know when they are being applied. I will never develop the kind of technique that is required to be a competent classical guitarist. I am too old and in some sense broken, but not in spirit. I am here to learn music and guitar. These discussions nurture that quest within me and I am thankful for yours and John's and all of the rest who remain as contributors to this forum as participants. It keeps me young.
James
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

Jules Wilkins
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Jules Wilkins » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:18 pm

James A. Showalter wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:40 pm
I will never develop the kind of technique that is required to be a competent classical guitarist. I am too old and in some sense broken, but not in spirit.
Hey, at least nobody will accuse you of too much arching in the right hand!
I do not know your age and it is true enough I think that it is easier to absorb knowledge and train muscles when one is young. Against that, drive and persistence that comes with maturity can make up for a great deal. I am 63 years old and I sometimes find myself forgetting a word and it concerns me somewhat. Research shows that our minds require exercise to remain healthy with diet also playing its role. How do we exercise our minds? Three ways are generally suggested. Learn a language, play games that involve solving complex problems, and learning an instrument. For me that means learning Mandarin and Spanish, playing duplicate bridge and studying the guitar. I have just recently read that my penchant for sweet foods is bad for my brain as well as my obvious gut.
So OK, we will likely not become the next John Williams, but we can certainly learn to play well enough. You are not too old.
The only relevant question is whether you are steadily improving. Some days it will not feel like that, but that is OK. Keep up the effort and you will reap the rewards which includes a better overall state of mental health and quality of life. Don't put yourself down. You can do this.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

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James A. Showalter
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by James A. Showalter » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:34 am

My shortfall is in completing all of the supporting music that is a part of each lesson. I address the required pieces but do not give the full suite of lessons its just due. As a result my progress is less than what a fully dedicated student would achieve. I have my excuses - the job, travel, the rest of life. I knew when I signed up that it would be difficult to keep up and do this properly. Oh well.

The good news is that this is my last year to blame any shortfalls in life on work.

I'll submit the January lessons in the coming days.
James
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

Yucel Kamcez
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Yucel Kamcez » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:42 pm

Hi,
I couldn't send anything to share, so sorry for that. I lived some health problems last month and i had heavy workload this month, so it became a serious barrier to me for playing. If this lesson will stay open for a few days i'll try to share...

Jules Wilkins
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Jules Wilkins » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:38 am

Yucel Kamcez wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:42 pm
Hi,
I couldn't send anything to share, so sorry for that. I lived some health problems last month and i had heavy workload this month, so it became a serious barrier to me for playing. If this lesson will stay open for a few days i'll try to share...
Hey, Yucel. I thought we lost you! Sorry to hear you have health issues but very happy to hear from you. I have no doubt that the lesson will "stay open" and look forward to your submission. :casque:
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

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James A. Showalter
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by James A. Showalter » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:41 am

Yucel,
I have been delaying submission of this lesson for some time now. The flu had me down and my cough remains scary but I will be submitting these lessons today regardless of whether my development is up to where I want it.

Yes, This lesson is still very active. It's good to hear from you.
James
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

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James A. Showalter
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Mississippi

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by James A. Showalter » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:16 am

Here are my lesson-5 submissions.

They are indicative of progress more than any statement of achievement outside of just submitting them.

Polyphonie-1


Polyphonie-2


Leccion-1


Exercise de simple alternation-1


Exercise de simple alternation-2


Thanks!
Last edited by James A. Showalter on Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

Jules Wilkins
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Jules Wilkins » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:08 pm

Yes, now you just need to post the link.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

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John Montes
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by John Montes » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:37 pm

For now, please follow this guidance regarding posting videos.

There was a recent update to the forum that now requires this change in procedure
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Jules Wilkins
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Post by Jules Wilkins » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:05 am

hello James:
Great to see you posting again.
The one thing that stands out from your earliest submissions is a hugely improved overall posture. I am going from memory here so forgive me if I have forgotten, but I recall a slouched position with you holding the guitar somewhat horizontal. I vaguely recall you saying that you could not achieve the correct posture which rather reminds me of having said much the same thing, but both of us have improved dramatically.
The Polyphonie exercises are very tough at first to do well, but they are also very important and, I promise, will get easier over time.
They are to be played rest stroke with both the fingers and the thumb. You played them entirely free stroke. A common error of beginners in playing free stroke is to pluck at the string, pulling it up instead of sideways. If you hold a left hand finger on the right hand finger segment between the metacarpo and proximal joints, ie, the first segment as it leaves the palm, and play a stroke, be it rest or free, the joint must move away from your left finger towards the palm of your hand. In your stroke the joint kicks away from the palm.
On your remaining submissions you used the rest stroke with your fingers and the execution was hugely better, but I cannot help but wonder whether the stroke is correct or not.
Shearer continually emphasizes the need for relaxed finger tips, and that bit of advice is missing somewhat from https://www.thisisclassicalguitar.com/r ... al-guitar/ which is where I advise you taking a trip to. You need to get your basic rest and free strokes down pat before you can hope to coordinate them as required in these pieces.
I could not consistently play these exercises as the strings got closer (thumb to finger) until I learned how to shape and polish my nails, something I thought I already knew until confronted with these exercises. My nails were too long and would hang up on the strings making it nearly impossible to coordinate the thumb with the finger. Playing without nails would not be a bad idea as you perfect these strokes, but if you keep the nails make sure they are very well shaped and polished. If they hang up on the strings even a little it will frustrate you.
Perfecting your rest and free strokes is, in my opinion, clearly the area you most need to work on now and for that reason I offer no further advice at this time.
Good luck and I hope you enjoy the link I sent. Plenty of great advice there from people who really know their stuff. :bye:
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

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James A. Showalter
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by James A. Showalter » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:56 am

Thank you Jules.

I have really come to appreciate the evaluations that you proffer and know each time before reading that I will learn something. To be honest I really had no perception of rest stroke vice free stroke before now. I will certainly review your link. Now that I am aware of the difference I will start thinking about it. That, as I am sure you know, is the first step towards learning.

It seems to me that the real significance of my play outside of not knowing the difference between the two different styles of stroke is that I have not assigned to memory the notes of the musical piece. You would think that by now I would have immediate recall of each note but that is not the case. I have to think each time what note is it and where is it. Each pluck is like that of a gardener picking fruit - oh, this piece is ripe and that one there. So the result is an independent extension with no thought about the delivery. From here on I will be thinking about how to extract each note and the reach will be more well thought out. Flowing. My difficulty with knowing the note will just have to resolve.

I can report that I have moved toward resolution of posture as you've noted. I have a 45-degree 6"X6" wood chunk that I've incorporated into my stuff and use it as a foot rest to elevate my left thigh about the right height for resting the guitar and it helps maintain an effective distance away from my body to where I can reach the sound-hole and strings. This is probably the definitive accomplishment for me from lesson D01.

But I will be drawn away from the lessons for a week as my job requires my time with the result that I will fall further behind. I am glad that at least a few of us remain in the lesson and I vow to keep with it. I don't have enough expertise to contribute much more than an evaluation of the critique that you and the few others provide but I feel that my learning might spill out onto the floor for another like myself to sweep up.

It's always a pleasure hearing from you.
James
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

Jules Wilkins
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Jules Wilkins » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:58 am

Reading music and associating a note on the staff with a string and fret position does not come overnight, but there are a few disciplines to make it easier. Playing the scale of CM in the first position is a start, but whatever you play it is extremely helpful (and difficult at first) to name each note as you read and play it. Boring too. But doing it I would estimate knocks hundreds of hours off the learning curve. I am sure you already know "FACE" and "Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge" to remind you of the notes on and between the staff lines, and that helps when you get a bit lost. I can definitely remember struggling with this and even now I still have to check myself on occasion, but I also surprise myself somewhat when I can sight read and play a simple tune. It will come to you also and when it does you may be equally surprised.
I didn't comment before on your timing of Leccion 1 which is off. I didn't because learning how to properly execute rest strokes and free strokes is, for now, fundamentally more important, but part of reading music is knowing how to count the beats. When you are not naming notes you should be counting out the piece measure by measure. Eventually you play what you have learned for personal enjoyment (no counting or naming notes) and give yourself a well deserved pat on the back for the effort you have put in, but you do need to put in that effort to reap the rewards.
Always remember...how good you are is of minor importance for there will always be room for improvement. The only thing that counts is that you steadily improve, and to do that you need to practice with a specific goal in mind. You cannot think of everything at the same time. When working on the left hand for example you have to ignore what the right hand is doing, but at the same time you want the right hand to be doing things correctly or else you are simply reinforcing bad habits. This is why the exercise in simple alteration is so valuable, as the twofold goal is to execute perfect rest strokes and do with perfect timing. Reading the music as you play, even though it is only a single open string, helps reinforce the association between the staff, your guitar, and knowing that the note is E.
I know of course that your right wrist is fused, but while that changes things somewhat I suspect it should not impede your ability to become a good player. Your right hand should generally be held steady. Playing the exercise in simple alteration for example where you keep stroking the first string, only the fingers in your right hand should move. The hand itself should not move at all. If you look at Delcamp's hand (and hopefully mine) you will see what I mean. Your hand moves around a fair bit during that exercise which is not good. I fooled around a bit pretending my wrist was fused and perhaps you will need to accept that a degree of movement must be tolerated as most players can simply modify a slight arch in the wrist to achieve the goal, but see if you can find a position that allows for little to no movement. The less your hand has to move the easier it will be to play. I hope you can see the logic in that.
Good luck. You have a lot of input to consider and a lot of effort ahead of you to nail this stuff.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Yucel Kamcez
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:22 pm

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Yucel Kamcez » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:35 pm

hi,

at last.,.

flying fingers are back :) i don't like this situation you know.

have a nice day...

--









Yucel Kamcez
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:22 pm

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Yucel Kamcez » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:19 pm

I'd like to play Simple Alternation 2 by one piece. But i should say that it was very hard to me for counting and alternating notes even in a such simple exercise with my dyslexia. I hope one day ...

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