D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

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Ed Butler
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Ed Butler » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:35 pm

Lucian - slurs were much better. And the camera angle was great.

Ed

Tom Wimsatt
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:46 pm

Ed Butler wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:34 pm
Tom - I liked your Pavane. I focused on your left hand and saw very little hand movement which is great. That is something I need to continue to work on.

ED
Thanks Ed and Lucien. This group of pieces is taking me some time to learn. Hitting the last chord on this one was tricky for me. I was about to post Sauteuse, when I realized I was playing it wrong (second line, second-last measure - played open G instead of open B) :oops:
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Lucian Bistreanu
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Lucian Bistreanu » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:01 pm

Ed Butler wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:35 pm
Lucian - slurs were much better. And the camera angle was great.

Ed
Thank you Ed!

Lucian Bistreanu
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Posts: 188
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Lucian Bistreanu » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:02 pm

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:46 pm
Ed Butler wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:34 pm
Tom - I liked your Pavane. I focused on your left hand and saw very little hand movement which is great. That is something I need to continue to work on.

ED
Thanks Ed and Lucien. This group of pieces is taking me some time to learn. Hitting the last chord on this one was tricky for me. I was about to post Sauteuse, when I realized I was playing it wrong (second line, second-last measure - played open G instead of open B) :oops:
You're welcome Tom!

Tom Wimsatt
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Location: Northern Alabama

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:40 am

My posting for Andantino. Kept messing up the very end :-x

1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Jules Wilkins
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jules Wilkins » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:57 am

Lucian:
Huge improvement on the slurs. It is quite a challenge to keep even tempo let alone even volume so we need to make slurs a daily exercise, almost. I tend to overdue it some days and need a few days for my fingers to recover, but I know it will take hundreds of hours if not thousands to get proficient at them.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Jules Wilkins
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jules Wilkins » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:10 am

Tom: I love that you posted Pavene and indeed I think it is one of your best submissions. I find it difficult to picture you struggling with your pieces as I am sure you must at first given that you play them so well.
On Andantino I like your recording a lot and you continue in my mind to set the bar. A small observation is that you are missing the full rests at the end of each section, and I think they are important. A smaller observation is that, while you play the piece extremely well I don't yet feel like you own the music. By contrast, I definitely feel like you own Pavene. When you play Pavene I get totally wrapped up in your interpretation, but not so much with Andantino. Would I be correct in guessing that Pavene is a piece that captured you imagination?
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:51 pm

Jules, thanks for the feedback. I realize you put quite a bit of time and thought into your responses and I appreciate it.

I agree with your assessment of Andantino. I try to put just enough of a pause between sections - somewhere between not enough, and where it sounds forced/artificial (if that makes sense ). A natural rest between sections. This, along with hitting correct notes, muting strings, and most recently, hitting adjacent base strings and getting the sound I'm looking for, is still a hit and miss proposition.

I realize this will take time and practice to accomplish. But I sometimes still get very irritated when things don't go to plan. That is to say, I have a pretty good idea how I want something to sound - playing it is another matter. Andantino was one of those pieces which turned out to be more difficult than I first thought: my playing of it is still a far cry from what I have in mind.

Pavane was one of those pieces that first had me wondering what in the world the artist had in mind. It wasn't until I heard "sung" versions of this piece (good 'ole YouTube ) that I began to "get it " I guess. It turned out that piece was easy enough (i. e. short enough to) express both notes and style without screwing it up.
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Lucian Bistreanu
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Lucian Bistreanu » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:14 pm

Jules Wilkins wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:57 am
Lucian:
Huge improvement on the slurs. It is quite a challenge to keep even tempo let alone even volume so we need to make slurs a daily exercise, almost. I tend to overdue it some days and need a few days for my fingers to recover, but I know it will take hundreds of hours if not thousands to get proficient at them.
Thank you Jules,
I used the metronome for a while, but for some reason I don't like it, even though I know I need it.
I guess I'll keep practicing with the metronome at the begging of the sessions and then I'll continue without it.
Thanks again for your comments on my slurs without whom I would have practice them like in my original posting.

Jules Wilkins
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jules Wilkins » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:33 pm

Lucian Bistreanu wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:14 pm
I used the metronome for a while, but for some reason I don't like it, even though I know I need it.
I believe the use of a metronome is a bit of a hot topic, with some asserting extensive use and others perhaps dispensing with them entirely. If you listen to Delcamp's recordings his exercises are played with strict cadence while his pieces are played with varied cadence, and I generally agree with that approach. Playing in strict tempo is a skill we absolutely need and we should be able to accomplish that without the "crutch" of a metronome, but to get to that point I for one need the metronome from time to time. For example, I am still working on Malaguena where we have to switch fingers in a chord in order to free up our first finger to play F on the 6th string followed by a fairly rapid string of notes. I would not be able to improve without the metronome. Like you I don't exactly like it because it tells me every time I screw up, but maybe by the time we have finished this years course I will be able to play Malaguena properly. Varying the tempo is a fantastic tool to use to give a piece artistic expression, but if we are doing it because we cannot make the chord change quickly then that is clearly the wrong reason. I think we need to be real with ourselves and pull out the metronome when we clearly need it, but the goal is to be able to control our tempo and play pieces legato without the metronome.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Jules Wilkins
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jules Wilkins » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:23 am

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:51 pm
I try to put just enough of a pause between sections - somewhere between not enough, and where it sounds forced/artificial.
Tom: I think you may have misunderstood me. You are pausing just enough. What you are not doing is muting the strings for a beat as written in the score and as played by Delcamp. Truth of the matter, you play so well that it is easy for me to find praise and encouragement and difficult to find anything you do "wrong", but I did find that small thing.
I suspect you are quite the perfectionist in all that you do, and I admire you for it. If ever you want a job, look me up. :wink:
I commented to Lucian on the use of the metronome and the importance of being able to play in perfect tempo. This is something you excel at and if you cannot play error free at the indicated tempo you simply slow it down to one you can handle knowing that speed will come in time. That discipline sets a great example for the rest of us. But in some sense playing "error free" is the easy first step. I think I played Andantino close to error free (after many failed attempts, but we wont talk about those :D ). But when I compare my rendition to that of Delcamp it becomes evident that I have a long journey ahead of me, and I think this is what you are noticing about your playing as well. Relatively little remains to talk about posture or hand position for while improvement is no doubt possible we are at least zeroing in on something that works well enough, but how do we take these skills to the next level? As you say, we have something in mind and we may even delude ourselves into believing we executed that vision...and then we play our recording and realize that we somehow missed the mark. Perhaps we are our own greatest critics, but that is OK because it is through raising the bar that we continue to improve.
I very much doubt that you will present us with much in the way of technique to comment on, and now that I am caught up I will strive to play as well. I will however look for interpretation suggestions to consider and hope that you will do the same for me, for I think that will be more helpful than a simple pat on the back. You will still get the accolades so long as you keep up the great work, but I don't think "good" is good enough for you and if I can help you achieve great than I will consider it a victory. :bravo:
My left thumb is very sore so I have decided to stop playing for at least a few days for it to recover, so I will be tardy in completing the assigned postings. I have really been concentrating on improving my left hand and it seems to have taken a toll on my thumb. I will have to figure out why once I start up again.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:01 pm

Jules Wilkins wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:23 am
Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:51 pm
I try to put just enough of a pause between sections - somewhere between not enough, and where it sounds forced/artificial.
Tom: I think you may have misunderstood me. You are pausing just enough. What you are not doing is muting the strings for a beat as written in the score and as played by Delcamp. Truth of the matter, you play so well that it is easy for me to find praise and encouragement and difficult to find anything you do "wrong", but I did find that small thing.
I suspect you are quite the perfectionist in all that you do, and I admire you for it. If ever you want a job, look me up. :wink:
I commented to Lucian on the use of the metronome and the importance of being able to play in perfect tempo. This is something you excel at and if you cannot play error free at the indicated tempo you simply slow it down to one you can handle knowing that speed will come in time. That discipline sets a great example for the rest of us. But in some sense playing "error free" is the easy first step. I think I played Andantino close to error free (after many failed attempts, but we wont talk about those :D ). But when I compare my rendition to that of Delcamp it becomes evident that I have a long journey ahead of me, and I think this is what you are noticing about your playing as well. Relatively little remains to talk about posture or hand position for while improvement is no doubt possible we are at least zeroing in on something that works well enough, but how do we take these skills to the next level? As you say, we have something in mind and we may even delude ourselves into believing we executed that vision...and then we play our recording and realize that we somehow missed the mark. Perhaps we are our own greatest critics, but that is OK because it is through raising the bar that we continue to improve.
I very much doubt that you will present us with much in the way of technique to comment on, and now that I am caught up I will strive to play as well. I will however look for interpretation suggestions to consider and hope that you will do the same for me, for I think that will be more helpful than a simple pat on the back. You will still get the accolades so long as you keep up the great work, but I don't think "good" is good enough for you and if I can help you achieve great than I will consider it a victory. :bravo:
My left thumb is very sore so I have decided to stop playing for at least a few days for it to recover, so I will be tardy in completing the assigned postings. I have really been concentrating on improving my left hand and it seems to have taken a toll on my thumb. I will have to figure out why once I start up again.
Jules, I am sorry to say that after spending nearly 45 minutes on a response, I somehow hit the wrong button on my phone and lost the whole thing. :x I have also discovered I am unable to send private messages...

I repost something tomorrow. I am too disgusted with this to redo it right now. This is not the first time this has happened. I guess I'll have to start writing text files to cut and paste into the forum so I don't loose stuff...

Thanks for the feedback. By the way, I'll work on providing interpretive feedback in the upcoming posts.

Tom Wimsatt
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:07 pm

Here is my posting of Sauteuse, Opus 59. I'm going to go back to more dedicated metronome work, it seems to help me with technique and I think its needed.

1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Ed Butler
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:46 am
Location: Plymouth, MA, USA

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Ed Butler » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:01 pm

Tom - well done. It is funny, the first time I heard you play this it sounded very fast. When I went back and listened to the instructor play and then re-listened to your version it was spot on. I am finding when I play this, the first 5 notes do not sound "musical" to my ears. I need to do a better job of coming close to the way you play those notes.

Ed

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:54 pm

Ed Butler wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:01 pm
Tom - well done. It is funny, the first time I heard you play this it sounded very fast. When I went back and listened to the instructor play and then re-listened to your version it was spot on. I am finding when I play this, the first 5 notes do not sound "musical" to my ears. I need to do a better job of coming close to the way you play those notes.

Ed
Thanks Ed. Pavane struck me the same way. It seemed musically odd, only playing it faster made things worse :lol:
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

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