Sage Works guitar support

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Eberhard Mueller
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by Eberhard Mueller » Sun May 06, 2018 12:10 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:51 pm
...
I think the Sageworks internal magnets are 74 grams. On my next guitar that will need magnets, I bought some 18 x 1.5 mm N50 that weighs 10 grams total for 4. I'll see if these are strong enough. I'll also be trying out a new way to install them. They will not be built into a holder like the Sageworks. The only function of the holder is to keep the 2 magnets from sticking to each other. Each magnet will have a command strip installed individually with an install tool with no need to put your hand in the sound hole. The magnets will be painted black so they are less noticeable.
I also wondered about using bare magnet stacks with the command strips. Instead I made blocks out of mahogany which turned out to be a lighter option. The question of how many magnets would be required is intriguing. I had 12 on hand, and so used 4 stacks of 3 magnets each. So, assuming your weight figures, the magnets alone could weigh a bit less than half of the Sageworks blocks weight. However, I found, the 2 stacks of 3, in my fabrication, would not have as much attraction as the Sagework version. Perhaps, 4 or more to the stack would be required to equal Sagework' (their block dimension could accept as much as 2 stacks of 6!) If so, at 2.5 gm each magnet, the full compliment of 24 bare magnets could weigh 60 gm.

I think there is a point to making one's own magnet block - that is, only if the guitar dimensions require such customization. As far as not using blocks at all, just magnet stacks, (not to discourage you,) I would like to hear more as your experiment progresses.
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SteveL123
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by SteveL123 » Thu May 10, 2018 6:27 pm

Eberhard Mueller wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 12:10 am
(.............)
I also wondered about using bare magnet stacks with the command strips. Instead I made blocks out of mahogany which turned out to be a lighter option. The question of how many magnets would be required is intriguing. I had 12 on hand, and so used 4 stacks of 3 magnets each. So, assuming your weight figures, the magnets alone could weigh a bit less than half of the Sageworks blocks weight. However, I found, the 2 stacks of 3, in my fabrication, would not have as much attraction as the Sagework version. Perhaps, 4 or more to the stack would be required to equal Sagework' (their block dimension could accept as much as 2 stacks of 6!) If so, at 2.5 gm each magnet, the full compliment of 24 bare magnets could weigh 60 gm.

I think there is a point to making one's own magnet block - that is, only if the guitar dimensions require such customization. As far as not using blocks at all, just magnet stacks, (not to discourage you,) I would like to hear more as your experiment progresses.
I tried the installing the 18 x 1.5 N48 magnets with command strips individually with an insertion tool (a 12" length of solid copper house wiring with a bolt attached to one end). The first one pops off and sticks fine. I could not get the second magnet to stick to the empty spot, it would stick to the first magnet just installed instead. I tried it a 3rd time and it stuck to a magnet again so I now I have a stack of thress 18 x 1.5 magnets with command strips in between on the same spot. I finished the install by using my hand through the sound hole. After I was done, I found the 18 x 1.5 mm N48 magnets are just not strong enough to pick up the guitar holding the Sageworks support.

I know for a fact 18 x 4 mm N50 magnets are strong enough. I have used them before on 2 guitars. They are 8 grams each and you need just 4 of them, no need to stack more.

If you search e - b a y for "US 10pcs N50 Disc Cylinder Round Magnets Rare Earth Neodymium 18x4mm". 10 pcs for less than $10 shipped in the US. I just placed an order myself.

tkoehler1
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by tkoehler1 » Mon May 14, 2018 3:10 am

I love the Barnett/Sage supports and use it on all my guitars. My latest guitar, however, has double sides. I'm worried that the standard magnet may not be strong enough. I'd like to get a stronger magnet. Any ideas or experiences with this problem?

Thanks!

TK

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Eberhard Mueller
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by Eberhard Mueller » Mon May 14, 2018 5:11 pm

tkoehler1 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:10 am
I love the Barnett/Sage supports and use it on all my guitars. My latest guitar, however, has double sides. I'm worried that the standard magnet may not be strong enough. I'd like to get a stronger magnet. Any ideas or experiences with this problem?

Thanks!

TK
I suggest doing a trial with the regular magnets. You don't have to use the adhesive to do that. I suspect it will work fine, on the assumption that "double side" does not mean air-space between layers, just a laminated side, not much thicker than a solid layer would be. Even if it is twice as thick, there should still be plenty of magnetic attraction.
Neil Douglas 2001 (German Spruce / German Maple)
Neil Douglas 1992 (Engelmann Spruce / Brazilian Rosewood)
La Patrie Motif
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tkoehler1
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by tkoehler1 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:03 am

Thanks for the reply, I should be more specific, the guitar has "structured" sides and is made by Jeremy Clark. The sides are quite thick, so much so that I think it will be an issue. Here's a pic:

Imagea block plane is a wonderful thing by Tristan Koehler, on Flickr

SteveL123
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by SteveL123 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:25 am

I think most traditional guitar sides are 2 to 3 mm thick on average. Your's look to be twice that. Magnetic strength decreases as the square of the distance. With thick sides like your's the Sageworks magnet may not be strong enough. Did you check with Jeremy Clark or Kris Barnett? They've probably been asked those questions before. If they don't know, your best bet is to experiment and try bigger and stronger magnets than the Sageworks magnets.

edit: Found this graph
Image

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Eberhard Mueller
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by Eberhard Mueller » Tue May 15, 2018 5:23 am

tkoehler1 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 3:03 am
Thanks for the reply, I should be more specific, the guitar has "structured" sides and is made by Jeremy Clark. The sides are quite thick, so much so that I think it will be an issue. Here's a pic:

Imagea block plane is a wonderful thing by Tristan Koehler, on Flickr
Yes, a picture is worth a thousand words! I would still try it with one set of the Sage magnets. It is worth performing this simple experiment before you go to greater trouble. If necessary, you might consider doubling up the Barnett/Sage magnets. A second set is hardly an extravagant expenditure.
Neil Douglas 2001 (German Spruce / German Maple)
Neil Douglas 1992 (Engelmann Spruce / Brazilian Rosewood)
La Patrie Motif
Cordoba Mini M

SteveL123
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by SteveL123 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:47 pm

Eberhard Mueller wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 5:23 am
(............................)
I would still try it with one set of the Sage magnets. It is worth performing this simple experiment before you go to greater trouble. If necessary, you might consider doubling up the Barnett/Sage magnets. A second set is hardly an extravagant expenditure.


Yes, by all means try the SageWorks magnets first if you can to see if they are strong enough. I am not sure if doubling up the Sageworks magnets is a good idea with the gap created by the plastic housing (won't get maximum strength) and how tall the end result would be.
Last edited by SteveL123 on Wed May 16, 2018 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tubeman
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by tubeman » Wed May 16, 2018 6:44 pm

tkoehler1 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:10 am
I love the Barnett/Sage supports and use it on all my guitars. My latest guitar, however, has double sides. I'm worried that the standard magnet may not be strong enough. I'd like to get a stronger magnet. Any ideas or experiences with this problem?

Thanks!

TK
My Hill Signature has laminated sides and the standard Sage magnets work just fine. They may not have quite the intense grip as they do with single-thickness sides, but I have no problems with slippage or anything.
Kenny Hill Signature 2017 spruce/cedar/Indian
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MessyTendon
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Re: Sage Works guitar support

Post by MessyTendon » Thu May 17, 2018 1:25 am

I think the magnets are pretty cheap and common so I'll go ahead and make my own set of magnets...In fact I think a DYI magnet is better because I can make them have a little handle so I can easily manipulate them in the sound hole.

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