driverless cars

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
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markodarko
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Re: driverless cars

Post by markodarko » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:08 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:Correct, you're not.
Good to hear. :mrgreen:
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Re: driverless cars

Post by Dofpic » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:55 pm

There was a very interesting white paper from the Cato Institute that said if everyone had autonomous cars it would be much safer and would use much less energy than cars today as traffic jams, accidents, and rush hour traffic would be a thing of the past. I happen to think they are right and likely to happen much quicker than most think once they realize the benefits. I am guessing 10 years at the earliest 20 years max.
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Re: driverless cars

Post by markodarko » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:08 pm

My problem isn't with autonomy, it's with the method used to deliver it. Cars haven't really changed since conception. They still need bits of rubber attached to 4 wheels in order to move. That rubber needs replacing regularly.

There's a finite amount of oil.

One day soon we will have raped the world of all its natural resources due to Man's short-sightedness and wasteful nature. It won't matter one iota if the cars are autonomous or not if there's no more oil to make tyres, fuel, plastic, electronic components, solar panels etc.

It's a flawed solution in a world with finite resources.
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: driverless cars

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:11 pm

markodarko wrote: It's a flawed solution in a world with finite resources.
The entire edifice (industry + the economic growth mantra) is a flawed solution in a world with finite resources.

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Re: driverless cars

Post by markodarko » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:18 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:The entire edifice (industry + the economic growth mantra) is a flawed solution in a world with finite resources.
Absolutely, Mr. Denian. I concur completely. We should be concentrating our efforts on developing transport networks that will work for millennia - long after the oil has gone - not the next fad. We should develop with the mindset that everything is running out, so how can we make the most of it, not what new consumable shiny gadget can make the most money this quarter.

I'm sure we could do just that too, that's the sad thing about it all. It's not too late, but soon it will be.
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: driverless cars

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:32 pm

Perhaps we should be wondering whether the ability to travel anywhere, anytime in next to no time is actually a desirable goal. As the world gets smaller and smaller so do our imaginations.

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Re: driverless cars

Post by gitgeezer » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:14 pm

I'm waiting for the personal self-flying airplane (including self-takeoff and self-landing, of course) that can take me anywhere in the world with no flying ability required of me.

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Re: driverless cars

Post by lagartija » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:36 pm

The Star Trek transporter would be the best solution. Who wants to be the first human to try it out? :twisted:
Also, disassembling someone and beaming them would take a significant amount of power, so we have to harness the matter/antimatter thing first.
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Re: driverless cars

Post by simonm » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:23 pm

gitgeezer wrote:I'm waiting for the personal self-flying airplane (including self-takeoff and self-landing, of course) that can take me anywhere in the world with no flying ability required of me.
Well apart from the "personal" that would about sum up any modern aircraft. The pilots are not strictly required but few people would fly without one. Not me for sure.

For what it is worth long vanished UK British aircraft makers were the ones that developed the technology due in the main to the famous UK fogs.


(This led to the absurd situation for British Airways that as the launch customer for the Boeing 757 to replace the Trident, the brand-new "advanced" aircraft had inferior all weather operations capability compared to the fleet being broken up for scrap. An indication of this philosophical divide is the comment from a senior Boeing Vice President that he could not understand why British Airways were so concerned about the Category 3 certification, as there were only at that time two or three suitable runways in North America on which it could be fully used. It was pointed out that British Airways had some 12 such runways on its domestic network alone, four of them at its main base at Heathrow.)

...
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland)

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Re: driverless cars

Post by MarkInLA » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:13 am

gitgeezer wrote:I'm waiting for the personal self-flying airplane (including self-takeoff and self-landing, of course) that can take me anywhere in the world with no flying ability required of me.
Yeah, until something malfunctions, which is inevitable with machinery...

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Re: driverless cars

Post by Dofpic » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 am

The world is awash in oil. Gasoline and natural gas prices reflect this. Bottled water cost four times as much as gasoline! Fortunately because of innovation and technology we now recover it in a more environmentally friendly and effective manner than ever. If you don't believe me on the environmental angle go back and look at historical pictures from the 1890's then the 1920's 1950's 1980's etc. Like everything we manufacture from toys to shoes to tv's computers phones etc. we get better and cleaner and more effective at it all the time.

I do like Gitgeezer's idea. But until then I will go autonomous in my Tesla in my travels. Cleaner and safer than any other automobile.
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Re: driverless cars

Post by Contreras » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:18 am

Dofpic wrote:The world is awash in oil. Gasoline and natural gas prices reflect this. Bottled water cost four times as much as gasoline!
Not in Sydney, Jim!
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Re: driverless cars

Post by simonm » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:51 am

Dofpic wrote:... Bottled water cost four times as much as gasoline! ....
The only places I previously have heard this to be true are in Venezuela and in some Middle East oil producers. Then again if we compare it to "Bling" brand water, it is absurdly true. I saw "Bling" in a shop in Madrid (Gourmet section of El Corte Ingles) for 89 euros, if I recall correctly, for a 0.7l bottle. At the moment it is possible that even in Germany or the UK if we compare petrol to the most expensive brands of bottled water in fancy shops, as opposed to the generic stuff in supermarkets, what you say may be true. However, the general run of the mill bottled water is in the 17c-30c per litre range vs .95-1.60 E per litre for fuel depending on which European country you compare it to.

As for being "awash" in the stuff, that is true at the moment but it is merely a temporary symptom of the "oil wars". I will be very surprised if the current prices are still around in Q1 2018.

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Re: driverless cars

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:53 pm

simonm wrote:...Whether we will be allowed to drive at all in 20 years is still an open question but that a prohibition will come eventually is evident.
This is not as grim as you might think. Electric vehicles, charged via solar arrays would mean we can continue to drive or "be piloted". If the charging is from fossil fuels, then no. Or if you are predicting the collapse of the USA, then our driving addiction and work/commute models will also die. I hate to think that self-driving cars will bring about an apocalypse. I think it'll be okay.
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Re: driverless cars

Post by simonm » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:55 pm

Andrew Pohlman wrote: ... our driving addiction and work/commute models will also die. I hate to think that self-driving cars will bring about an apocalypse. I think it'll be okay.
Actually it is the other way round. The "apocalypse" will bring an end to the driving addiction. The self-driving pods may let a moderate commute model continue for a bit longer.

If you consider people driving 80-100 miles each way everyday that is 15-20 hours per week of their private time gone for the honor of working somewhere else. Paying for that privilege sops up a good chunk of the money they earn in the process both directly paying to run the vehicle and indirectly to keep the vast network of roads. The construction of roads consumes quite a lot of oil directly for asphalt and indirectly for all the vehicles involved. Germany is also a car addicted land and a huge part of the economy depends on everything related to the auto industry. I have heard the 1 in 6 jobs is dependent on it. It is not just a US thing.

One of the major benefits of self-drive pods would a reduced footprint for roads. More like a monorail footprint than a two lane highway. Acceleration and stop start driving conditions is what burns up fuel so a more controlled fairly constant speed would likely increase the average speed for a journey in densely populated areas.
Last edited by simonm on Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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