Been vegan for three months now

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cefyn
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by cefyn » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:26 pm

David Gutowski wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:25 am
You left out the best, most delicious ingredient of all: Hemp Hearts...which is shelled hemp seeds. Gives your smoothie a rich, nutty taste...it's high protein with a lot of vitamins and minerals...and has nothing to do with the leafy part-guaranteed not to get you high.
Wha? That's like saying leave petroleum out of a car and it's guaranteed not to get you from A to B - like that's a good thing!
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by davebones » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:46 pm

I generally avoid any forum discussion of my decision to avoid meat and dairy, because some readers respond with all kinds of generalities about vegans, veganism, hunting, etc. But I do support Riffy's decision and wanted to chime in to say so. I think ddray and mickmac articulated how I see it. Compassion towards living things is something I value Yep. My own opinion, which I'm sure isn't THE TRUTH, is that a mostly plant based diet is more sustainable for the world. As Mickmac says, do what you can. And I hope Riffy never has to look a Tofurkey in the face. They are scary.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:17 pm

davebones wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:46 pm
... And I hope Riffy never has to look a Tofurkey in the face. They are scary.
They've got faces? :shock:
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lagartija
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by lagartija » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:26 am

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:17 pm
davebones wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:46 pm
... And I hope Riffy never has to look a Tofurkey in the face. They are scary.
They've got faces? :shock:
I know for a fact they do not! I had a coworker who had a rule for what she would or would not eat; “I don’t eat anything with a face.”
She used to eat Tofurkey for Thanksgiving .
I rest my case.
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by davebones » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:06 pm

I admit to hyperbole about the Tofurkey. It didn't have a face, but eating some of it (one Thanksgiving in 1990) was a horrifying experience which obviously has made me delusional. :mrgreen:

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by riffmeister » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:13 am

Trader Joe's has a GREAT "turkey" roll!!!!

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by simonm » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:13 am

davebones wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:06 pm
I admit to hyperbole about the Tofurkey. It didn't have a face, but eating some of it (one Thanksgiving in 1990) was a horrifying experience which obviously has made me delusional. :mrgreen:
Tofu along with white asparagus are "abominations unto his noodliness".

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:20 pm

Here is a little bit of recent research I found when studying new curricula for my nursing students:
About 40-45% of the usable land on Planet Earth is devoted to raising animals for protein. This percentage is comprised of direct land use (feed lot, grazing, barns, milk factories, etc), and indirect, as in growing grains and grasses to feed the animals.

All the worlds protein needs can be met with only 2% of the usable land if we convert to an entirely vegetable diet. I suppose some land will be devoted to feeding race horses, grey hounds and whippets! :D

Now, my sister-in-law is an off the deep end fanatical vegan. Her husband just commented how he spent the Holidays eating all vegan. He said "I'm done with this," and swore to resume his meat based diet. And I must agree. Every time I abstain from beef, then after several weeks eat some again, I'm blown away by the flavor.

Intellectually I know we must adopt sustainable and humane food producing strategies. Enter synthetic meat. There are a zillion articles, some very outdated. Synthetic meat is being produced now, but of course, is still much more expensive than real meat. "Food scientists" have isolated the chemicals that make meat taste like meat, then they synthesize the proteins in the lab. Hence names like "test tube steak" and "Petri dish pork". Testers in London (and elsewhere) say they love the flavors, but not the price.

I just think about my off the deep end fanatic vegan sister-in-law. I doubt that would be a solution for her. If the price came, I see it as the perfect solution for us carnivores with a conscience. All the flavor I want, none of the heart issues, all the environmental consciousness, and without the slaughter of animals. Here is a Gizmodo article (I think it's NOT commercial - please do not clobber link).
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David Gutowski
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by David Gutowski » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:00 am

davebones wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:46 pm
I generally avoid any forum discussion of my decision to avoid meat and dairy, because some readers respond with all kinds of generalities about vegans, veganism, hunting, etc. But I do support Riffy's decision and wanted to chime in to say so. I think ddray and mickmac articulated how I see it. Compassion towards living things is something I value Yep. My own opinion, which I'm sure isn't THE TRUTH, is that a mostly plant based diet is more sustainable for the world. As Mickmac says, do what you can. And I hope Riffy never has to look a Tofurkey in the face. They are scary.
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by davebones » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:25 pm

Thank you, David, for bringing a sober, important and much needed piece of chicken history into the discussion. We must never forget (the chicken). :merci: And on another relevant note, check out the youtube video of one of our forum members (maybe not) playing the guitar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxWLcovg6hk.

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Andrew Fryer » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:19 pm

I was wondering over Christmas. If you own chickens as pets, they lay eggs every day, don't they, even if they are never fertilised?
I'd (genuinely) like to know what the vegan argument is against eating those eggs. I'm predicting "it's cruel to own chickens as pets", but if it weren't, what would be the reason for not eating the eggs? And if it were cruel, presumably vegans never own pets?

[spelling corrected]
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by lagartija » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:48 pm

Among Vegans I’ve met, there is also great debate about whether or not to eat honey. Although the material is processed by bees from plant pollen and nectar, I guess the rationale is that taking it unfairly deprived the bees of their food.

Although the pet chicken eggs are not fertile (supposedly), and the chickens don’t eat them, they are animal in origin just as milk is.
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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Andrew Fryer » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:53 pm

lagartija wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:48 pm
Although the pet chicken eggs are not fertile (supposedly), and the chickens don’t eat them, they are animal in origin just as milk is.
I know, that's why I'm asking. Veganism is, afaik, always moral in its viewpoint. They don't drink milk because of the harm done to cows in dairy farming (that milk is for baby cows, not humans, is just specious political rhetoric): they don't eat eggs because of the harm done to chickens in factory farming: and so on. I was wondering what the view is if you can find a situation where no harm is done.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:52 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:53 pm
lagartija wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:48 pm
Although the pet chicken eggs are not fertile (supposedly), and the chickens don’t eat them, they are animal in origin just as milk is.
I know, that's why I'm asking. Veganism is, afaik, always moral in its viewpoint. ...... I was wondering what the view is if you can find a situation where no harm is done.
I'm not actually vegan, just very nearly. No I wouldn't say its always a purely moral viewpoint; all the other usual questions come into it one way or another. The idea of keeping chickens purely as pets and then the question of what to do with the eggs everyday is so hypothetical as to pretty much rarify itself out of existence. I would say that probably no vegan keeps chickens as pets, not just because they are not good pets, but because obtaining then means, most likely, playing a part in some way in the chicken = meat business.
Practically, as far as I know, chicken keeping for eggs even by vegetarians involves occasional compromise, such as the need to allow some fertilisation every now and then (and half the hatchlings with be male), the point that even if you go out and buy a few hens, what happened to the males hatched at the same time, and what to do with the hens when they no longer lay. Part of which would be whether one felt able to subsidise the keep and feed of unproductive hens. What you wouldn't want, I don't think, even in a notional 'as pets only' scenario, is an equal number of males and females, and if you only have one male sooner or later the inevitable will happen.

To expand on the moral point; a chicken's egg is basically the stuff for making a chicken minus whatever the fertilisation does to turn it into an actual chicken. For this reason in some contexts egg is thought of as 'liquid meat', in being so to speak, once-removed. One who is vegan for a variety of spiritual reasons might consider that a reason to avoid, on its own.
So one might say its not just a question of whether 'harm is done', but where is at all fits into how the person in question thinks about their place in and impact on the world and the world's impact on them.
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by edcat7 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:54 pm

I worked as a chef in a Chinese vegan restaurant for thirteen months. I can understand from a moral or religious standpoint but I found in this particular restaurant it was not as healthy as one expected; everything required deep frying and then stir frying.

The kitchen porter and I were the only ones there who were not vegan and after a while I missed meat. We bought some fried chicken from next door and ate it in the alley way behind the restaurant, tossing our waste and cigarettes in the bin. There was a huge fire in the bin and my boss having watched the cctv gave me a right bollocking not for starting the fire but for eating meat. Karma I guess.
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