Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
quavers
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Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by quavers » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:27 pm

I have seen this topic elsewhere in the forum, however what I did not get from other postings, were observations noted by players who may have acquired a new guitar 5 or 10 years ago detailing the tonal changes they had observed in their instruments. I know this lacks objectivity, but a large swath of individual comments can, I believe, draw a clearer picture. And while I have never performed any such test, I would like to hear comments from players who have recorded their instruments when they were new and recordings of the same instruments made after 5, 10, or 15 years.

Now, my observations, they are very generic, and probably nowhere near as informed as comments that will be posted.

After having owned ten or so classical guitars, I can say with some authority, that if a guitar did not have a "beautiful voice" form the onset, it is only likely to become marginally better - not a great deal of room for improvement.

The guitars that I have owned for over ten years (3 of them, lovely voices all), have all improved, and in much the same way. The "voices" they had did not change so much as the tones seemed more discreet, attacks seem to be a little cleaner, and sustain in the higher registers all seemed to have improved.

All have become a little more temperamental when it comes to changes in the weather.

Thank you :chitarrista:

RaajShinde
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by RaajShinde » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:23 pm

I don't have any experience or knowledge about this topic, though I did come across a device called ToneRite that claims to artificially age guitars (and other instruments) by generating sub-sonic frequencies in the instrument. This apparently simulates long-term playing and changes the tonal response of the instrument for the better. They have testimonials (like everyone else these days), including one from a member of the Kronos Quartet. In keeping with forum rules I'm not posting a direct link but a search for "ToneRIte" will get you there. Wonder if any DelCampers have any direct experience with this device. The idea fascinates me and I wonder if this is real or pixie-dust. Anyone here have a spectrum analyzer to run an experiment? :)

Cheers!
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:39 pm

RaajShinde wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:23 pm
I don't have any experience or knowledge about this topic, though I did come across a device called ToneRite that claims to artificially age guitars (and other instruments) by generating sub-sonic frequencies in the instrument. This apparently simulates long-term playing and changes the tonal response of the instrument for the better. They have testimonials (like everyone else these days), including one from a member of the Kronos Quartet. In keeping with forum rules I'm not posting a direct link but a search for "ToneRIte" will get you there. Wonder if any DelCampers have any direct experience with this device. The idea fascinates me and I wonder if this is real or pixie-dust. Anyone here have a spectrum analyzer to run an experiment? :)
Yes I got one after a guitar maker told me he used one. It makes a big difference if one has too many guitars to keep all of them well played in by natural methods - and its not a good idea to put it on a guitar already well exercised. For me, it works.

Re the OP, playing-in makes a guitar more of everything, and quite humble instruments change noticeably, certainly, anything with a solid top.
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)
Simon Ambridge 'Hauser' (2018)

AndreiKrylov

Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:49 pm

Aging of your guitar-Player???

my guitar is not aging... it is fine.. it is the same age as me BUT!!!
I am getting older!!
my body is aging... yet guitar?
it is fine ...it is sound even better than when she was younger...!!! :)

RaajShinde
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by RaajShinde » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:47 am

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:39 pm
RaajShinde wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:23 pm
I don't have any experience or knowledge about this topic, though I did come across a device called ToneRite that claims to artificially age guitars (and other instruments) by generating sub-sonic frequencies in the instrument. This apparently simulates long-term playing and changes the tonal response of the instrument for the better. They have testimonials (like everyone else these days), including one from a member of the Kronos Quartet. In keeping with forum rules I'm not posting a direct link but a search for "ToneRIte" will get you there. Wonder if any DelCampers have any direct experience with this device. The idea fascinates me and I wonder if this is real or pixie-dust. Anyone here have a spectrum analyzer to run an experiment? :)
Yes I got one after a guitar maker told me he used one. It makes a big difference if one has too many guitars to keep all of them well played in by natural methods - and its not a good idea to put it on a guitar already well exercised. For me, it works.

Re the OP, playing-in makes a guitar more of everything, and quite humble instruments change noticeably, certainly, anything with a solid top.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the ToneRite. Sounds like it does indeed affect the tonal characteristics of an instrument, for the better. I wonder if you (or any of the folks here) know what exactly the low-frequency stimuli do to the structure/materials of the guitar and how that changes the tonal response. From what their website says one has to keep using the device, otherwise the instrument "returns" to its previous, less desirable tonal characteristics. That implies that whatever the changes are, they are not permanent. That's fascinating and raises all sorts of questions in my mind. I guess it's the curse of engineers! :)

Cheers!
-raaj
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:41 am

RaajShinde wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:47 am
.....
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the ToneRite. Sounds like it does indeed affect the tonal characteristics of an instrument, for the better. I wonder if you (or any of the folks here) know what exactly the low-frequency stimuli do to the structure/materials of the guitar and how that changes the tonal response. From what their website says one has to keep using the device, otherwise the instrument "returns" to its previous, less desirable tonal characteristics. That implies that whatever the changes are, they are not permanent. That's fascinating and raises all sorts of questions in my mind. I guess it's the curse of engineers! :)....
Well, be clear that its my personal experience and observation. My understanding of the process is that there is little or no consensus as to what happens within the instrument, whether mechanically or humanly agitated, beyond perhaps that its in part about improving the efficiency with which the various components share and transmit the vibration.
I would expect an unused guitar subject to a TR treatment but then not played on further, to return with time to its original state. After all, a well or over-played guitar if left in its case for a couple of years can return to an 'as-new' state (one luthier said they 'sulk') so it would make sense for this machine to have the same effect.
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)
Simon Ambridge 'Hauser' (2018)

edcat7
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by edcat7 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:02 am

I considered getting a Tonerite but found the cost prohibitive, this is true especially for those with only one guitar. I now stick my guitars in front of my hifi speakers when I don't play them and find this is just as effective.
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

AndreiKrylov

Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by AndreiKrylov » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:58 pm

One guitar do not satisfy me...
I play it and feel excited for couple of days .. and then ...I want new experience... :)
I change to another guitar...
I have several guitars and lute - it gives me opportunity to change and feel excited while playing all the time.
Maybe it is an easier solution for this problem?
Did anyone here measured exact acoustic characteristics of above described guitars?
before treatment, after treatment?
could it sound different/better just in our mind?
could our mind just get tired from sameness of the sound and demand another colors?
Sometimk

JohnB
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Referring back to the original question - I think it is impossible to say really. If there is a change it happens so gradually that I for one find it hard to recognise it. Having said that I have the impression that my 47 year old Hermanos Conde has changed somewhat BUT I think that my memory of tonal qualities is extremely unreliable and is most likely influenced by other factors.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

Scott Phillips
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by Scott Phillips » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 pm

How much is a Tone Rite?

RaajShinde
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by RaajShinde » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:19 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 pm
How much is a Tone Rite?
Hi Scott,

I believe the model for guitar is $150.

BTW, since I originally brought this up here, let me just state for the record that I don't have one and most definitely do not have any association with these guys. I'm just intrigued by the device and curious about the science behind it.

Cheers!
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.

Scott Phillips
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by Scott Phillips » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:31 am

RaajShinde wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:19 am
Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 pm
How much is a Tone Rite?
Hi Scott,

I believe the model for guitar is $150.

BTW, since I originally brought this up here, let me just state for the record that I don't have one and most definitely do not have any association with these guys. I'm just intrigued by the device and curious about the science behind it.

Cheers!
I was wondering how much they were because I want to get one for my good guitar, the only good one I have. At $150 dollars, it wouldn't be cost prohibitive. I don't get to play as much as I would like due to an ongoing illness that has been going on for a year. I notice that the guitar seems to "go to sleep" as it has sat in the case before for up to two months, without getting any use. This does seem to affect the sound.

JohnB
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:02 pm

I was playing my spruce topped Stephen Frith 2007 and it reminded me of this thread.

I bought it late 2016 at a "bargain" price and at that time it hadn't been played at all for a great many months (possibly a year or more). At the time I bought it the trebles were rather bright ("crystaline" let's say) - now they are *much* more mellow. The interesting thing is that I haven't noticed a similar change on my cedar topped Hermanos Conde '68 when I have come back to playing the guitar after a long period away.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

Rognvald
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Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by Rognvald » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:39 pm

Quavers,
You ask a great question. The problem is how much of the answer will be scientific and how much falls into the category of Black Magic? We musicians are an odd bunch of canaries and the best of us have active and fruitful imaginations. And, although I have great respect for Science, I am at heart a Luddite and prefer to use my ears and head rather than a machine to determine how much "bloom" one of my guitars has experienced. I have 3 cedar concert guitars, a Gibson jazz guitar and a student model Spruce Yamaha. Here's the rundown of my concert instruments:

LoPrinzi Spanish Grand Concert: Bold, powerful projection and a rounded sound I have enhanced with CF trebles for greater tonal flavors.
The instrument aging has produced an enhancement of the above characteristics with some surprising
sonorities in the upper register. Strings: Savarez High Tension CF

Brune 30C: A bright cedar out of the box that has developed a sweet singing quality on which I use neutral strings
and allow the instrument to project naturally. A perfect instrument for 19th Century Romantic Music.
Its aging has enhanced it natural sound and better projection. Strings: D'Addario EJ45 MT

Esteve 1GR08 Very dark, Spanish sound with good projection that I need to enhance its palette with CF trebles and
bright focused basses. I use this guitar primarily for Bossa/Jazz and as a gig guitar. This instrument
has aged primarily by greater projection and some very sweet upper register tonalities.
Strings: Savarez High Tension CF

I hope my unscientific observations help. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

AndreiKrylov

Re: Aging of your guitar-Player observations

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:00 pm

If guitar build well - then nothing really will happen with it in PLAYER lifespan.
My favorite guitar is at least 60 years old. Beaten and scratched in some places almost to holes (lots of flamenco been played on it) but still sounds and work fine.
And yes - Frets, tuners and fingerboard been replaced 20 years ago.
But guitar is fine... yet my hands!!! they going down... how to replace them? :)

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