Guitarist’s academic qualification

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As02
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Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by As02 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:00 am

What is your opinion on this? Keywords: Dipabrsm, FRSM, ATCL, Bachelor in music studies :merci:

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:35 am

Well, it means the person has passed the requirements for whichever qualification it is. Doesn't mean much else.

All those above are different things - the DipABRSM for instance is a just post-grade 8 qualification, the FRSM is an absolute mountain to climb. People pass ATCL who would not (imho) pass the DipAB.
Having a BA means you have done some years in a college or university.

Are you interested in doing one such?
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Rasputin
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Rasputin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 am

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:35 am
the FRSM is an absolute mountain to climb. People pass ATCL who would not (imho) pass the DipAB.
Having a BA means you have done some years in a college or university.
Is it possible to relate the FRSM to University qualifications? Is it higher than say an MA, or lower, or just different? I suppose my assumption has been that the University qualifications are broader, with more in terms of arranging, composition, maybe even orchestration, whereas the RSM ones are more instrument specific... but to be honest I couldn't say where I picked up that impression.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:54 am

Rasputin wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 am
Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:35 am
the FRSM is an absolute mountain to climb. People pass ATCL who would not (imho) pass the DipAB.
Having a BA means you have done some years in a college or university.
Is it possible to relate the FRSM to University qualifications? Is it higher than say an MA, or lower, or just different? I suppose my assumption has been that the University qualifications are broader, with more in terms of arranging, composition, maybe even orchestration, whereas the RSM ones are more instrument specific... but to be honest I couldn't say where I picked up that impression.
Different things altogether, though very very broadly a candidate for a FRSM might be sort of player who has done a post-graduate full time year or two after either instrumental or general music-focussed BA. Point is you can do an FRSM if you have the requirement prerequisite, which is an LRSM or equivalent (I have the LRSM). To do an MA has different requirements, normally a BA, and would normally be after full-time study with more academic proportion even if it has a final recital component. The FR, depending on the discipline (performance, teaching or direction) 'only' requires a written essay of some kind, the exact current details would be in the syllabus.
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Rasputin
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Rasputin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:11 pm

Very illuminating, thanks.

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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by chuckinphoenix » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:30 pm

Dipabrsm?, FRSM?, ATCL?, LRSM?
Can you please explain
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Rasputin
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Rasputin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:32 pm

Maybe a bit UK-centric. RSM stands for the Royal Schools of Music - ABRSM stands for the Associated Boards of the Royal Schools of Music (as in exam boards). TCL stands for Trinity College London, another exam board. The Dip is for Diploma, F is for fellow, L is for licenciate, A is for associate.

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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:46 pm

I know a lot of musicians in and out of the classical disciplines. I look at such resume bullet items with a very practical eye.

Typically, the "exams" and/or certifications are used as entrance prerequisites for many advanced programs of study, either at universities or private. They imply various levels of expertise. The Bachelors degree is more about employment opportunities and/or a prerequisite for Masters programs. The other really big implication are the social network of musicians afforded by going through any or all of these processes.

Some examples - my daughter-in-law has a Bachelors in music theory with accompanying teaching credential. She runs 4 different high school marching bands. But her real skills take her into performances all over the SF Bay Area. Her work in the schools affords many private students. No fancy letters.

My in-class CG instructor has a PhD in Theory and Masters in Guitar Performance from SF Conservatory. He shuns the academic politics, so he performs and teaches in private institutions. No fancy letters.

My online CG instructor has a Masters in CG Performance and is a professor at Linfield College, performs all over, and has copious private students. No fancy letters.

The Choir Director in my wife's church has a PhD in Theory, and a Masters in Choral Arrangement. He has deep connections to LampLighters, the Berkeley Rep, and other similar groups, representing a talent pool from which he regularly calls upon. His work is 7X24 with multiple choirs, private students, and of course, his professorship at UC Berkeley. No fancy letters.

Back to your question - all those fancy letters don't mean a thing to me. But they are meaningful to the academic hierarchy, for sure. I would not look at those alone or in isolation. In reviewing someone's qualifications, I'd want to see their real world accomplishments too.
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Rasputin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:51 pm

As far as I understand it those letters - well, maybe not FRSM, which Stephen describes as a mountain to climb - are a lot less fancy than PhD or even MA / MMus / MM.

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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by CathyCate » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:48 pm

As02
Are you evaluating the qualifications of other guitarists or making plans for your own course of study? The why in this case may be as important as the what. Just wondering.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:22 am

Andrew Pohlman wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:46 pm
I know a lot of musicians in and out of the classical disciplines. I look at such resume bullet items with a very practical eye.
...
Some examples - my daughter-in-law has a Bachelors in music theory with accompanying teaching credential. She runs 4 different high school marching bands. But her real skills take her into performances all over the SF Bay Area. Her work in the schools affords many private students. No fancy letters.
My in-class CG instructor has a PhD in Theory and Masters in Guitar Performance from SF Conservatory. He shuns the academic politics, so he performs and teaches in private institutions. No fancy letters.
My online CG instructor has a Masters in CG Performance and is a professor at Linfield College, performs all over, and has copious private students. No fancy letters.
The Choir Director in my wife's church has a PhD in Theory, and a Masters in Choral Arrangement. He has deep connections to LampLighters, the Berkeley Rep, and other similar groups, representing a talent pool from which he regularly calls upon. His work is 7X24 with multiple choirs, private students, and of course, his professorship at UC Berkeley. No fancy letters....
The BA, PhDs and MA you list Andrew are all perfectly fancy, and nothing different in nature than many of those in the OP except in most cases, being much more valuable. The cultural difference lies in the UK (and some other places) having an obsession with music exams. Most other parts prefer competitions, aka festivals. That exam trail here starts young for many and things like the DipABRSM are near the end of that process, which only happens in one's own time, so to speak, and not as part of a formally enrolled course of study.
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fretter
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Re: Guitarist’s academic qualification

Post by fretter » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:18 am

Very interesting. Thanks to all for your questions and comments.

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