OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
User avatar
RJVB
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:29 am
Location: La Ferté Milon, France

OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by RJVB » Tue May 21, 2019 9:39 am

Is it OK to ask here for advice, suggestions and personal experiences selling instruments that are classical but not guitars?

I'd rather not discover if this forum also has its share of moderators taking their role very (very) seriously ;)

I guess it should be safe to ask if anyone already has experience with Les Petites Annonces de la Musique Classique (pamc DOT fr)?
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

BrunoB
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:19 am
Location: Cumbria

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by BrunoB » Tue May 28, 2019 11:52 am

Hi RJVB,
I notice that a number of people have read your query without commenting. I wonder whether they are waiting for a Moderator to give you a definitive reply? While I am reasonably sure that people would be willing to share experiences with you I wonder why you do not ask those questions of a specialist group that is concerned with your instrument (Violin for example?). Best of luck!

User avatar
RJVB
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:29 am
Location: La Ferté Milon, France

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by RJVB » Tue May 28, 2019 1:06 pm

Hi, Bruno,

I noticed and thought the same thing.

I have already asked around among my contacts, without learning much useful new things. I will probably ask in a more dedicated forum at some point, but I prefer to ask first in places where I am already a member who's not just there in order to sell a few things and then disappear.
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

wil weten
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 pm

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by wil weten » Tue May 28, 2019 3:53 pm

Is it about advice how to prevent to become the victim of a scam? You could find enlightening information on the internet. That is to say, it was enlightening for me when an aquaintance of mine was wondering what she needed to know before selling a musical instrument internationally. I could help you google in English and German (if you can read both languages).

I myself don't have any practical experience on the subject of selling a classical instrument.

User avatar
RJVB
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:29 am
Location: La Ferté Milon, France

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by RJVB » Tue May 28, 2019 4:09 pm

No, it's not really about scam prevention; that's easy enough with a minimum amount of common sense and the use of PayPal and the like for getting paid.
Besides, given the amount of money involved I don't think anyone would want to pay without having seen and tried the instrument first, for fear of being victim of a scam themselves! I'd get suspicious of such buyers.
That said, given the amount involved I'd probably want to avoid PayPal if as I think they'll be taking a fee. A direct wire transfer done in front of me shouldn't (or less).

That'd make for an interesting question in itself, btw: How much are you willing to pay to a non-professional seller for an instrument you have only seen and heard (supposedly) in photos and videos?
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

wil weten
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 pm

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by wil weten » Tue May 28, 2019 6:12 pm

RJVB wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:09 pm
No, it's not really about scam prevention; that's easy enough with a minimum amount of common sense and the use of PayPal and the like for getting paid.
Besides, given the amount of money involved I don't think anyone would want to pay without having seen and tried the instrument first, for fear of being victim of a scam themselves! I'd get suspicious of such buyers.
That said, given the amount involved I'd probably want to avoid PayPal if as I think they'll be taking a fee. A direct wire transfer done in front of me shouldn't (or less).

That'd make for an interesting question in itself, btw: How much are you willing to pay to a non-professional seller for an instrument you have only seen and heard (supposedly) in photos and videos?
Still, you may like to google on 'retract direct wire transfer' and you will see it still brings some risks for you. E.g. Bank transfers may be canceled up until or prior to a scheduled transfer is set to be executed by end-of-day (business) EST. Some fraudulent wire transfers made from accounts, which do not have the funds on them, can be called off by the bank.

As to your question: I would never buy an instrument unseen from a non-professional seller. And I would only buy one from a reputable shop if I can send it back without fuss when I simply don't like it. And even exactly the same looking instruments (maker, model, wood) can have very different tonal qualities. And besides, instruments can suffer from defects which may not be easily visible on photos. And as to videos: the sound of an instrument can be very much affected by the acoustics of the room it is being played in and then, of course, one can optimize the sound with a bit of software.

I don't know which kind of instrument you are willing to sell, but in any case, I wish you luck in getting a good price for it.

User avatar
RJVB
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:29 am
Location: La Ferté Milon, France

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by RJVB » Tue May 28, 2019 7:11 pm

There's also the possibility of a "cheque de banque" with comes with guarantees, but I think most online banking systems wouldn't allow a transfer when there are insufficient funds - and I'd draft something to be signed by both parties that can act as proof of transaction. I'll probably be needing that anyway for the tax guys.

The instrument concerned is my remaining violin which I no longer play and which I do not want to keep around in a case... The only reason I'm considering to sell internationally is that the builder is mostly known in the Netherlands, not here (I could have put it up for auction at the Musicora for about 1/4 of what I paid for it, and less than 1/5 of the minimum resale value suggested by the builder). I contacted the Muziek Instrumenten Fonds since creating this thread, they didn't say "no thanks" immediately. It'd be real nice if they were to add the instrument to their collection!
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

simonm
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9047
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:22 am
Location: Spain, IB

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by simonm » Wed May 29, 2019 7:40 am

RJVB wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:39 am
...
I guess it should be safe to ask if anyone already has experience with Les Petites Annonces de la Musique Classique (pamc DOT fr)?
Given that the site is french and you are in France, I suspect it would be much more effective to ask on the french forum. I have never heard of the site. It seems to be quite new. There is no information about who is behind the company or even what the company is called. The only concrete info is that it is hosted by OVH but as they are I believe the biggest service provider in France it is not a surprise. This forum is hosted thee too. From a visual perspective the site is very basic. The content is like the German vioworld.de site which is quite well established. I know that one ex-member here used to buy and sell guitars on that site although it is mainly for the violin family.

In essence the french site is like a small ad in a newspaper except you don't know who the "publisher" is. If you would be happy buying an instrument from a newspaper small ad in a new small newspaper, then this is very similar with all the same pros and cons. A SEPA transfer should be cheaper than paypal. In fact if the seller offers paypal you can certainly suggest a discount for using sepa - you would ned to check the french paypal site.

User avatar
RJVB
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:29 am
Location: La Ferté Milon, France

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by RJVB » Wed May 29, 2019 8:57 am

Thanks. I could indeed try the French forum, but which one do you mean? There's a French subforum which seems to be a bit dead in the water, and then there's what appears to be a completely separate French Delcamp forum for which apparently you cannot use the credentials from here.

You're right about PAMC being new and somewhat obscure. That's exactly why I haven't jumped in yet. There are alternatives like LeBonCoin which just act as an intermediary but I'm not very comfortable with that either, just like with putting an ad on Facebook.

SEPA transfer = wire transfer (basically inside the EU), and I just see that they are cost-regulated up to 50k€ - which sadly is not how much my instrument is worth 8-)

Re: small ads in a newspaper: do you think it really makes a difference who the newspaper publisher is?
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

wil weten
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 pm

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by wil weten » Wed May 29, 2019 9:10 am

I don't know anything of the violin world. But, when I were in the market for a really nice second hand lever harp, I would look at the showrooms of reputable harp sellers, including luthiers. People sometimes try to sell their instrument by commission through that way. They either pay a fixed price for having it stand there for a certain time or the seller gets a percentage of the selling price. Beware that the instrument should be insured while it stands there.

The great thing about this, is that you don't have to worry you get robbed by not so nice visitors and that the visitors can play the instrument at their ease in the showroom and compare it to other instruments.

User avatar
RJVB
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:29 am
Location: La Ferté Milon, France

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by RJVB » Wed May 29, 2019 12:31 pm

Yes, that would be the ideal, and it is how I bought all my instruments. Apparently that is not at all the custom here (unless possibly when/if you buy another instrument from that luthier). I asked around in the Netherlands, even there it is much less evident as it was when I still lived there (and all luthiers I knew have either closed shop or now concentrate on building only). It was evidently the 1st thing I tried... (given how much of a salesman I am ... NOT ;) )
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

simonm
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9047
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:22 am
Location: Spain, IB

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by simonm » Wed May 29, 2019 2:27 pm

RJVB wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 8:57 am

Re: small ads in a newspaper: do you think it really makes a difference who the newspaper publisher is?
No. :-)

But somehow something in The Times or The Economist seems more trustworthy than in a mysterious free paper stuffed into your mailbox.

wil weten
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 pm

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by wil weten » Wed May 29, 2019 2:45 pm

Would an advertisement in a well-read magazine about violins be a useful idea?

User avatar
RJVB
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:29 am
Location: La Ferté Milon, France

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by RJVB » Wed May 29, 2019 6:01 pm

I suppose it would. I'm so "unused" to printed press that I forgot about journals. I'd have to go take a look in a local kiosque if there's anything potentially interesting, and if they even have a "small ads" section. Somehow this kind of magazine doesn't make it to the waitingroom tables at my local GP or dentist ;)
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

Briant
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:23 pm
Location: East Sussex Uk

Re: OK to ask for selling advice (not guitars!) ?

Post by Briant » Wed May 29, 2019 6:32 pm

Take a look at the magazine “The Strad” whilst it does not have a small ads section it does have a lot of dealer adverts. It is an interesting read if nothing else !

Return to “The Café”