Temperature-Stable Strings

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
Chuah Hui Hsien
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Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Chuah Hui Hsien » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:48 pm

With my limited knowledge, I noticed that the nylon strings are more sensitive than the guitars. Sometimes they can sound so good, there are times they just simply won't perform, no matter what the brands are.

In my country, right now the heat is soaring high, indoor 34°c while outdoor can be as high as 40°c,I just could not play the guitar to get a good judgment on how the strings fare, sometimes they will feel tight, sometimes they just feel slack, on the same set.

Are you facing the same problems as far as the strings are concerned? Is there a more temperature-stable strings out there that you can recommend?

I am giving up experimenting on strings.
2017 Karel Dedain Spruce/Maple (Torres) 64cm
1998 Yamaha GD 10, Spruce/IRW 65cm
1988 Alhambra AL 8, Cedar/IRW 65cm

es335
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by es335 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:00 pm

Carbon or Nylgut trebles for instance are much more stable once they’ve settled which BTW usually takes longer than Nylon trebles. But they are different beasts soundwise and might feel tighter due to their smaller diameter but worth a try anyway.

epcritmo
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by epcritmo » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:41 pm

I have found nylgut to be very stable once they have settled.
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Scott Phillips
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Scott Phillips » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:52 am

To th OP, you might want to try Dogal Diamanté trebles. They are supposed to be hybrids. Nylon with fluorocarbon. I haven’t noticed any difference in their performance as the seasons change. But they might just work for you. But it is only 100degrees Fahrenheit where I live for a week or two out of the summer. They sound more like a good nylon, without the tubby G, and are not as thin or as high of tension as some carbon strings.

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souldier
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by souldier » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:05 pm

To the op you need to also remember that the issue may not be the strings and could be the guitar itself. Wood responds to changes in temperature and humidity, thus impacting how even the strings feel.
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Chuah Hui Hsien
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Chuah Hui Hsien » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:45 am

Thanks all for the feedback!Here is my short updates:

@To epcritmo,
I enjoy watching your videos, envy that you have strong nails. The high tension nylgut is no-no for me!

@To es335 and Scott,
I tried the Savarez Alliance, I couldn't get used to the feel and tension of carbon strings. So my next "go to" strings should be the hybrid Dimante for sure.

@To souldier,
Yes, the wood plays great role in determining the playability, not just the strings.

I even noticed recently that the nails also very important,apart from the factors listed above. I have soft and thin nails, I already keep them very short, just 1mm to 2mm,but they still wear rapidly(due to medical disorders),so I have to file and polish the edges as often as possible.
2017 Karel Dedain Spruce/Maple (Torres) 64cm
1998 Yamaha GD 10, Spruce/IRW 65cm
1988 Alhambra AL 8, Cedar/IRW 65cm

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RJVB
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by RJVB » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:37 am

Also bear in mind that humidity may play more of a role than temperature, and I think you're in a region where that can get very humid too. In general I'd expect that temperature affects mostly if not only tuning (as long as we're not talking about freezing or cooking temperatures :)).

I was surprised to learn that nylon strings are apparently sensitive to humidity, and out of experience with (plain) gut violin strings I know that this can really change the sound quality (as well as intonation). Using oiled gut strings was the solution for me (lasted longer, too).

You could try to treat your regular strings yourself. There are "fast fret" applicators which protect metal strings from corrosion through a very thin oily layer. That should help against moisture too. Better yet: try treating your strings with linseed oil (during dry conditions so as not to trap moisture inside; no need for high-grade food quality oil unless you want to make healthy salads too). Just put some on a kitchen paper towel and wipe the strings with that to put on a thin layer without any excess. Linseed oil has the property of drying when exposed to air (hence its use in paints) but should remain flexible. Note that I have no idea what it does to sound; I do know however that the "fast fret" stuff I use doesn't change the sound but *can* help to reduce buzz.

Mimmo from Aquila strings is on this forum; try shooting him a PM if he doesn't find this thread. He should be able to give advice if there's any kind of conditioning you could try, and he certainly should know if they have lower tension nylguts.
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Zen
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Zen » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:03 am

Nylgut are much more stable than nylon in my experience.
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Tonit
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Tonit » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:34 am

Hi,
I might have misunderstood, but my personal experience suggests nylons are more stable than wounds as I busk around in the cold weather right out of my warm apartment.

Back to the subject, You may want to try to adjust the number of turns on machine heads, more/less turns somewhat affect the pitch stability against thermal/humidity shifts. It's not like shorter the better but is rather like there is a point where you have the best result that you have to find.

Chuah Hui Hsien
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Chuah Hui Hsien » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:51 am

Hi Tonit,

Do you mean that I have to find out how many wraps of strings coiled on the rollers? I would like to know how you adjust the number of turns on yours, maybe I can learn to do this as well.

I have just changed my strings to Savarez Cantiga/Creation 510 MR, since I like the cantiga basses and the 3rd alliance very much. To my surprise, the 1st and 2nd cristal nylon sound quite good on my guitar, full and sweet. The basses and trebles are well balance and complementing one another. They intonate and stay in tune quite fast too.

I favour the string tensions on this normal 510MR set, just 85.64lbs - slightly lower than D'Addario EJ45.
2017 Karel Dedain Spruce/Maple (Torres) 64cm
1998 Yamaha GD 10, Spruce/IRW 65cm
1988 Alhambra AL 8, Cedar/IRW 65cm

Tonit
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Tonit » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:27 am

Chuah Hui Hsien wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:51 am
Do you mean that I have to find out how many wraps of strings coiled on the rollers? I would like to know how you adjust the number of turns on yours, maybe I can learn to do this as well.

I have just changed my strings to Savarez Cantiga/Creation 510 MR, since I like the cantiga basses and the 3rd alliance very much. To my surprise, the 1st and 2nd cristal nylon sound quite good on my guitar, full and sweet. The basses and trebles are well balance and complementing one another. They intonate and stay in tune quite fast too.

I favour the string tensions on this normal 510MR set, just 85.64lbs - slightly lower than D'Addario EJ45.
Yes, and possibly you have posed on FB about string choice that I answered Savarez based on 3rd nylon tone. I use by default NC Corum sets for both flamenco and classical but not fixed, alternatives include many others, like luthiers augustine and of course daddario.

But anyways you can adjust the length by roughly measuring the length using the MH rollers as placeholders.

But the strings can easily slip esp. nylons, so that you should take some measures to stop it from slipping while winding up.



I apply the BW method to the nylons to minimize slip, while wounds can be without twist, and just put the excess under the first MH round of each wounds.

I hope this helps you.

Chuah Hui Hsien
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Location: Penang, Malaysia

Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Chuah Hui Hsien » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:13 am

Thank you Tonit for the BW video. Now I make sure that my strings are all three wraps around the rollers. Hope this turn out well.

No, I didn't pose on your FB before. I've been trying many types of strings on my traditional lightly built Torres guitar for about a year. I overloaded this guitar by using hard tensions. Finally I figure out it is more suited for medium tension anyway.
2017 Karel Dedain Spruce/Maple (Torres) 64cm
1998 Yamaha GD 10, Spruce/IRW 65cm
1988 Alhambra AL 8, Cedar/IRW 65cm

DerekB
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by DerekB » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:14 am

I have just tried a couple of sets of Royal Classics with nylon first string and carbon second and third. The nylon string was much more sensitive to temperature changes than the carbon ones. The results were the same on both of the guitars in my signature box.
I've suffered for my music. Now it's your turn... - Seasick Steve

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Zen
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Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Zen » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:22 am

OP you mentioned that the nylgut tension was too high for you, but have you considered Alabastro light tension? They’re definitely more stable in my experience than nylon and not very high in tension...
The time between the notes relates the color to the scenes.

Chuah Hui Hsien
Posts: 192
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Location: Penang, Malaysia

Re: Temperature-Stable Strings

Post by Chuah Hui Hsien » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:50 am

Well, this set of Savarez Creation 510MR has been on my guitar for 3 weeks now, I would say that the 2 cristal nylons (E & B) and 1 alliance carbon G together with cantiga basses are the least affected by warm and humid climate here. Of course they sound their best in temperature controlled room.

The only issue I have with them is the treble strings took about 2 weeks to become alive. But once the strings are installed on the guitar, they hold up tune quite well. The other brands that I have tested suffered from intonation fluctuations as the strings matured. Some in fact sound better than new cristal nylons, but they are too sensitive to temperature changes. So, this set will probably becomes my favourite choice for the time being.
2017 Karel Dedain Spruce/Maple (Torres) 64cm
1998 Yamaha GD 10, Spruce/IRW 65cm
1988 Alhambra AL 8, Cedar/IRW 65cm

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