Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
Gaspere

Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by Gaspere » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:55 pm

Hi John.

Hard numbers are a good thing. I´ve played many sets of EJ46C (that´s hard tension) and Dr J´s aktive nylon hard tension feels softer. They felt much softer as new and now they are still rather soft. It is the defining thing about this material that it is very flexible and so feels softer than so many other strings of the same tension. They are unsual nylon strings.

Hard tension Dr J is 7.1 kg according to the package. Interestingly, Pyramid Double Silver medium tension is 7,3 kg.

Dr Junger and Pyramid use the same factory. There are some shared ownership.

Gaspere

Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by Gaspere » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:11 pm

Three weeks have past since I installed Dr Junger Aristona on one guitar and Pyramid Double Silver on another. I feel like wrapping this up, three weeks is what I expect a string to last and sound good when playing as much as I do. The guitar with Dr J strings has been played a bit more but the other guitar hangs on the wall which is no good for the strings. Each guitar has been played 60-70 hours in the three weeks.

The Pyramid strings sound the same, just less. The intonation is still good. The basses are slightly weaker but still not really dull. Perhaps tuning down to D the E strings is close to oomph-less. The strings have hardened much and the trebles require a determined attack to make them sound. That´s the rub: by now you have to dig in, use force in the attack and the result is not very varied. They are still good but versatile is not the adjective to use. More like a reliable and robust old warrior.

The Dr Junger basses went down after two weeks and so this is just a note on the trebles. But this whole thread has, for me, been about finding trebles that are not carbon, not titanium something, but sensible nylon strings that compares well with HB 815 or 900 - the best I´d played at the time. I don´t care about the extra sustain the carbon gives you because my guitar sustains the sound really well. My hopes for the nylons were to find something that enhances the articulation in the trebles. Aktive nylon is such a string. It is not loud but very responsive, very articulate, dynamic, and versatile in its potential expressions.
The Aktive nylon slowed down and hardened up in what appeared to be two weeks, but they have remained like that since. They are still quite soft and flexible and much more articulate than the Pyramids. I don´t think I will change them for a while to come.

In conclusion: If dynamics and articulation are on top of the list of priorities, Dr Junger Aristona SN could very well be your string. The active nylon last a long time. The matching basses are good - and I am in general favour of changing the 6 strings at the same time and at least giving the manufacture a chance to prove that he can combine basses and trebles competently, which in this case is well worth the try - but their short life span puts me off a bit.

es335
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Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by es335 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:22 am

Hi Gaspere,

An excellent review and conclusion which I do second! I very much appreciate you did this pioneer work on DrJ Nylon strings, as this finally made me find at least the ideal trebles for my tenstring and a serious alternative for my preferences HB 815 LT and 10PH.

Anyway I received the hard tension Aristona SN today and this confirmed at least for their NT and HT sets that the Active Nylon trebles are identical with diameters of 0.70 / 0.80 /1.00 mm which in terms of dimension is rather on the light than the heavy side of the Nylon spectrum.

But again I'm confronted with a logistics quality issue ... wonder what might be wrong with me? :?
- The diameters of the HT treble set are 0.70 / 0.81 / 0.84 (!) mm.
- The NT Nylon G string which I additionally ordered for testing instead of the Carbon third of the NT set has 1.00 mm!

Looks like the G string of the HT set is either a rather thick Nylon B or this time an undercover Carbon G string!?!? :(

Concerning the tension John received from DrJ I consider them very irritating, in particular as they are in contradiction with some objective physical facts:
- all diamaters are smaller than EJ45 for instance: 0.70 vs. 0.711 mm; 0.80 vs. 0.818 mm; 1.00 vs. 1.024 mm
- Active Nylon strings' density should be close to the average as they only differ in the production process
- string tension increases quadratic with the diameter

I of course do not question Peter's observation as he's one of the most experienced and profiled string experts here! But compared to my previous 10PH set with a nominal tension rating of 7.6 / 6.0 / 5.8 kg @ 655 mm scale (!) which is lower than DrJ's trebles, they do feel significant softer.

Considering one of Peter's other posts I in particular payed attention to cords and compared to the previous 10PH it is evidently much more easier now! Though I can't comment how the they compare to EJ45 and must admit that they harden up and there are other factors beyond pure physical charateristics of the strings influencing the subjective tension feeling.

Anyway I will replace the 10PH/815LT set of my Kohno with DrJ HT this weekend and am exited about the experiences on this guitar. :D

Gaspere

Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by Gaspere » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:15 pm

Hi Es335.

Thanks for the kind words. You comment that the active nylon only differ in the production process and I wonder if you have learned something about this in your communications with Dr Junger? Do you know anything about what "active" implies?

It would interesting to know what you have to say about the third string, a comparison of third carbon and Active Nylon, when you´ve had time to evaluate.
I installed my other Dr J set on my Hanika 60PF yesterday and the third string sounded a bit floppy yesterday but if I am not mistaken it also did so the first couple of hours on the other guitar. I´ll get some Sterling Silver Pyramid in time for the next string change and post a note on it in due course.

Cheers :guitare:

es335
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Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by es335 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:13 pm

Hi Gaspere,

this information is available from Dr. Junger's articles on their website. They claim to have improved the production process to obtain a better longitudinal orientation of the molecular chains. Sounds like pure marketing but makes sense considering how fast they stabilize and how good they intonate. Nylon is a thermoplastic material which is melted, shaped and cooled off in an extrusion process where different production parameter influence the moleculare structure. This is what I learned from our production with similar materials but as a non-chemist I would prefer to leave a more detailed explanation to the true professionals.

The Nylon third sounded floppy on my Kohno as well but improved quite fast but I'm not sure if I will stay with it. The Carbon third that accidentally found the way into my NT set seems to be the better match. Just as thick as Nylon B and really soft with a wonderful tone. I suppose it's their soft tension Active Carbon third but will have to verify that by measurement as labeling doesn't seem DrJ's strongest asset.

Concerning playing comfort I will have to ask Peter's pardon a bit. The HT trebles feel again softer than 10PH but it's more uncomfortable for the left hand with the Nylon than with the Carbon third. For the/my right hand they are almost perfect.

Soundwise everything said above is confirmed just without volume drop. They seem to be even a bit louder than 10PH?! But they are still are very fresh and will need some more time to mature for a final judging! :wink:

... and they match very well with HB815LT basses. I doubt that I will give the Aristona SN basses a try on this guitar.

es335
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by es335 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:39 am

Gaspere wrote: ...It would interesting to know what you have to say about the third string, a comparison of third carbon and Active Nylon, when you´ve had time to evaluate...
... my personal conclusion is - much better than their Active Nylon third, which is certainly one of the better!

I used the DrJ Active Carbon Low Tension third which seemed very similar to the one that was accidentally included in my first Aristona set. BTW opposed to the Active Nylon trebles most of DrJ's Active Carbon trebles are really different for the various tensions!

More homogeneous in sound, volume, tension, modulation capability and intonation of course. A really perfect match with the rest of the set.

... and opposed to my few other experiences with Carbon strings this Active Carbon third settled even quicker than their Active Nylon strings. Wonder how and why but am very positive surprised about that! :?: :D

sunny71c
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Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by sunny71c » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:48 pm

Could anyone compare Aristona, Active Nylon vs Carbon? I've used Carbon once and I liked it very much, but never tried Active Nylon. Thanks.

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petermc61
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Re: Pyramid and Dr Junger with nylon strings

Post by petermc61 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:55 am

sunny71c wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:48 pm
Could anyone compare Aristona, Active Nylon vs Carbon? I've used Carbon once and I liked it very much, but never tried Active Nylon. Thanks.
From memory the Aristona, Active Nylon and Carbon are increasingly brighter. I happen to think the Aristona trebles are very fine strings. They are just a pain to buy.

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