Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Daniele Lazzari
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Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Daniele Lazzari » Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:50 pm

I think exactly the same way. So I thought I'd share this video.
Enjoy!

[media]https://youtu.be/B0and9XN7Q0[/media]
Daniele Lazzari

"It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself" (J. S. Bach)
..You know, the guitar is a very special instrument! (D. Lazzari)

ronjazz
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by ronjazz » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:35 pm

Excellent ideas; Shearer bases his methodology on similar ideas.
This also shows that studying the 19th-century works of Sor, Giuliani, et al,
without factoring in the latest research into finger movement, as Marco states,
will not be the most efficient way to master modern techniques. Chris Berg outlines
this very well in his Giuliani Revisited volume based on Giuliani's 120 RH studies,
but updated to include modern demands.
Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra
Lester Devoe Flamenco Blanca
Aparicio Flamenco Blanca with RMC pickup
Bartolex 7-string with RMC pickup
Giannini 7-string with Shadow pickup
Sal Pace 7-string archtop

Luis_Br
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Luis_Br » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:01 am

interesting technical ideas, but so rude musically...

ronjazz
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by ronjazz » Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:24 pm

Really, rude? I think he's an assertive player who can be heard in the largest halls. He is, after all, demonstrating technique, and the microphone is directly in front of the guitar.
Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra
Lester Devoe Flamenco Blanca
Aparicio Flamenco Blanca with RMC pickup
Bartolex 7-string with RMC pickup
Giannini 7-string with Shadow pickup
Sal Pace 7-string archtop

Ramon Amira
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Ramon Amira » Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:07 pm

I did not understand anything that he said - not his english nor his ideas. Could someone please very clearly and in detail explain what he is trying to convey. I seem to get the impression that he was speaking about a different pattern for arpeggios, but I just don't know. Thanks.

Ramon
Classical and Flamenco guitar lessons via Skype worldwide - Classical and Flamenco guitars from Spain

Luis_Br
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Luis_Br » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:56 pm

ronjazz wrote:Really, rude? I think he's an assertive player who can be heard in the largest halls. He is, after all, demonstrating technique, and the microphone is directly in front of the guitar.
Sorry, maybe rude is not exactly the English word, he is certainly not very refined because I don't see too much care with interpreation subtleties and atticulation details and so on. If the point on fingering is about interpretation, details are important, I think. My conclusion on being rude musically was based on some other videos I've checked, like the prelude 1006 and some live performances, not only this one. Pepe Romero, who also has a powerful touch, is by far more refined, IMO, despite he still has a flamencoish accent in several of his interpretations (like when playing Giuliani).
Maybe the youtube examples are not good ones, but I didn't like those I've seen, never seen Tamayo in a live concert nor listenned to a CD studio recording from him.

Desperado
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Desperado » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:04 pm

Ramon Amira wrote:I did not understand anything that he said - not his english nor his ideas. Could someone please very clearly and in detail explain what he is trying to convey. I seem to get the impression that he was speaking about a different pattern for arpeggios, but I just don't know. Thanks.

Ramon
I think he is trying to explain preparation or planting with regards to the villa-Lobos etude and not only does it help with control and accuracy but left hand shifts eliminating the odd queak here and there.
The bach I'm not sure it's pretty obvious the accent is on the beat but I guess many guitarists find it hard to identify a phrase :lol:
Ideas are old but I quite like his positive approach however with a technique like his im sure he does find everything easy :(

Ramon Amira
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Ramon Amira » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:39 pm

I still don't understand one word of it. If he is offering new fingering for Villa Lobos Etude #1, then I would only observe that there are about ten thousand ways of fingering that, so I'm not sure that one more will necessarily make any great contribution to the world of classical guitar. If he is claiming that it is "new fingering that's going to revolutionize classical guitar," then it would be a dubious proposition in general, and moreover in particular regarding Etude #1 would likely meet with opposition from countless advocates of the other 9,999 fingerings.

I would still like someone to explain clearly and precisely what it is he is trying to tell us. I'm genuinely interested in other players' ideas, especially if they dramatically change classical guitar technique. I wouldn't want to fall behind the times.

Ramon
Classical and Flamenco guitar lessons via Skype worldwide - Classical and Flamenco guitars from Spain

Desperado
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Desperado » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:06 pm

I'll try again. He is not offering a new fingering for the villa- Lobos he is trying to explain the benefit of preparation and planting before the stroke.
if you don't understand I suggest you buy a copy of charles Duncan's method where he explains it clearly and precisely there.

Mikkel
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Mikkel » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:59 pm

The one example of the shift from villa lobos etude 1, he is actually offering a new way of fingering it. Changing the right hand pattern to allow for a shifting of positions in the left hand without the bar. No noise but a different right hand arrpeggio right in the middle of the the piece. He does the same in the barrios example, normally that part is played by using the same right hand pattern, he alternates it to create a left hand fingering that is without string squeaks. So it's not a new fingering for villa lobos 1 exclusively but a fingering concept that should essentially be "breaking" with tradition. But as far as I understand this seems to be just one aspect of his methology.

He does also as Desperado points out, advocate preparation and planting. But the video is done quite "rashly" and he could definetly benefit from either explaining it clearly and slowly and/or providing detailed sheet music explanations! But I'm sure he does so in his book.

I heard him play in concert a few years back and his playing was very virtuosic, clean, fast and "effortless". He definetly solved the guitars technical "problems"! (His interpretations were also good and logical, and he was very faithfull to the scores so hard to find any faults with him logically). I'm sure studying his method book will be beneficial, at least I plan to check it out at some point :)
Last edited by Mikkel on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mikkel
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Mikkel » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:59 pm

oops double post

Ramon Amira
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Ramon Amira » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:09 am

Comments on the video re: Villa Lobos

Desperado -
"He is not offering a new fingering for the Villa- Lobos"

Mikkel
"He is actually offering a new way of fingering it"

Ramon
Classical and Flamenco guitar lessons via Skype worldwide - Classical and Flamenco guitars from Spain

guit-box
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by guit-box » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:28 am

I *think* he's using the word fingering to include strategies for planting. I slowed down the video and what I see is the traditional fingering for Villa Lobos Etude #1 with the following planting strategy:

1. Plant PIMA as P plays the 6th string initially
2. Keep M,A planted throughout the P,I, P,I,P
3. Keep A planted as M and then I plays, then A plays
4. No planting or just sequential planting as M,A,I,M
5 Plant PIAM as P plays and leave A,M down for remainder of descending arpeggio and into the next iteration of the pattern

(or in other words, do an ascending PIAMA plant whenever you can AND leave M,A planting whenever you can)

As someone else mentioned, it seems similar to what Charles Duncan talks about in his method book.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

Desperado
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Desperado » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:46 am

He does give a different fingering for the barrios which I've never really thought about but I guess if I was to play it that fast I may have to revise my fingering too :)
What I find interesting is the bach which I'd don't like because it's too fast and slightly crude( maybe it's mic placement) - he sounds like a flamenco guitarist playing bach.
The guy has a phenomenal technique but does the over planting/preparation start to lose legato. I wonder if someone can look at the sound file to see if he stops the note just before plucking the next one too much to create this "machine gun" effect?

Mikkel
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Mikkel » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:44 am

Ramon Amira wrote:Comments on the video re: Villa Lobos

Desperado -
"He is not offering a new fingering for the Villa- Lobos"

Mikkel
"He is actually offering a new way of fingering it"

Ramon
He doesn't offer a new way of fingering all of villa lobos.. Only one bar, to demonstrate his point. I don't see the point of this post tho? Even though he speaks fast and all, he does explain everything in the video. In villa lobos on the bar where he has the E major with Gsharp bass to, if I remember right, B minor barre chord on the 7th fret, he changes his righthand pattern descending, uses the open strings and 7 fret in order to arrive at the B minor without any string squaeks. The same concept in the barrios. As others have pointed out he does also talk a lot about planting and preparation, but it isn't related to this point.

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