Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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JohnB
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by JohnB » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:54 am

Ramon Amira wrote:I did not understand anything that he said - not his english nor his ideas. Could someone please very clearly and in detail explain what he is trying to convey. I seem to get the impression that he was speaking about a different pattern for arpeggios, but I just don't know. Thanks.

Ramon
I'm glad that you wrote that. I had been thinking the same thing.

As far as I could tell, he was throwing around various ideas without giving the time or effort to explain any of them clearly and the video left me bemused.

The main impression that came over to me was that he liked displaying how fast he could play arpeggios.

... But then, what do I know.
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Blondie » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:45 am

Re. VL#1 I agree with the analysis earlier in the thread regarding Tamayo's right hand, if you watch the close up its pretty clear, P plays then plant IMA together and basically keep the MA on the top strings until they are used then stick them back again as soon as you can during the arpeggio descent.

As for the shift from the E major inversion to the A minor, looks to me (though its certainly not clear from his explanation) that he's dropping the G# in the bass early (sacrificing the length of the note) and moving into fifth position 'early' to complete the descent of the E major chord there, overall facilitating a smoother shift to the A minor with no squeak on the bass string I don't have my guitar with me at the mo at see exactly how that is fingered, but I like it.

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Ramon Amira » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:55 pm

The main question that struck me after watching the video was is there anything in it to justify the grandiose title that suggests there is something revolutionary about what is he saying.

Devising new fingerings is as old as classical guitar itself. The whole thing could have been summed up by simply saying "Don't feel obligated to use the same pattern -try altering the arpeggio pattern in places to find better fingering."

And while it might be an interesting idea to alter the pattern in places in the Villa-Lobos and elsewhere, I can't help but think that other guitarists have tried similar things over time.

I just don't see where this is some dramatic development that will alter the course of Western Civilization, or of the overall foundation of classical guitar technique

Ramon
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Mikkel » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:03 pm

I was under the impression that you actually didn't understand the content of the video due to the poor educational quality, and was merely trying to be helpfull in explaining. If the question is whether this constitues a revolution or not, I have no idea and don't care much either. Highly alternative and creative fingering solutions are nothing new at all, as you rightly pointed out.

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Desperado » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:45 pm

Duplicaw
Last edited by Desperado on Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by hpaulj » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:20 pm

On score samples for books like

http://shop.marcotamayoedition.com/prod ... line-.html

he has notations like 'p = circle(6)'. Does this mean, rest your thumb on the 6th string (while playing the others)? Presumably to steady the hand.

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Desperado » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:33 pm

Desperado wrote:I ve just watched this for second time and indeed he does change the fingering for Villalobos playing the last group of semi quavers on the e chord with a first inversion, playing them on the 4th, 5th and 6th string. I rather like his fingering and it does help the shift.i think the point he is trying to make is that by using and unorthodox string crossing we can achieve a better musical result - this applies for the barrios too.
I think that these sort of pieces which r written by guitarist/composers are normally quite guitaristic using conventional arpeggio patterns and it is difficult to think outside the box when these patterns are with us from an early stage.
i like the idea of overcoming all technical challenges to make the piece "easy" and that if you go out thinking your playing something difficult you've already set yourself up to fail.
There is one point I d like to make and that is over preparation and he does it a lot. He stops the notes just a fraction early leading to a machine gun sound - slightly flamenco-ish. Personally I prefer a bit more legato.

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by ronjazz » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:49 pm

Segovia is long dead, folks. Open those closed minds a little.
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Rick Beauregard » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:56 pm

Ramon Amira wrote:I did not understand anything that he said - not his english nor his ideas. Could someone please very clearly and in detail explain what he is trying to convey. I seem to get the impression that he was speaking about a different pattern for arpeggios, but I just don't know. Thanks.

Ramon
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by robert e » Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:13 pm

Ramon Amira wrote:The main question that struck me after watching the video was is there anything in it to justify the grandiose title that suggests there is something revolutionary about what is he saying
Perhaps your puzzlement is a case of enlightenment looking obvious to the enlightened? My second impression was that he meant "...changed MY classical guitar approach" and something got lost in translation. But actually, having looked at other videos and his website, I think what he really means is the other way around--more along the lines of "How my approach reveals easier ways to finger pieces that many consider 'difficult'".

This video I think gives a few more clues to what he's about (and has the far humbler title: "apoyando vs tirando in J. S. Bach"):
https://youtu.be/ABG8M7v5Yn8

I find two highly commendable things about what I understand to be his approach: 1) he's searching for first principles, and 2) the bedrock principle is that the purpose of technique is to serve the musical idea. He's certainly not the first to take a stab at illuminating this path, and I hope he's not the last. Whether it's revolutionary or even interesting I suppose depends on where you are on your own quest, but I think at worst he offers a good role model for a valid way to comprehend and navigate a path to mastery.

What puzzles me is that the book he seems to be talking about doesn't exist at his web shop. Or is this another translation issue and is he actually referring to the totality of his publications?

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by ronjazz » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:03 am

Desperado wrote:
Desperado wrote:I ve just watched this for second time and indeed he does change the fingering for Villalobos playing the last group of semi quavers on the e chord with a first inversion, playing them on the 4th, 5th and 6th string. I rather like his fingering and it does help the shift.i think the point he is trying to make is that by using and unorthodox string crossing we can achieve a better musical result - this applies for the barrios too.
I think that these sort of pieces which r written by guitarist/composers are normally quite guitaristic using conventional arpeggio patterns and it is difficult to think outside the box when these patterns are with us from an early stage.
i like the idea of overcoming all technical challenges to make the piece "easy" and that if you go out thinking your playing something difficult you've already set yourself up to fail.
There is one point I d like to make and that is over preparation and he does it a lot. He stops the notes just a fraction early leading to a machine gun sound - slightly flamenco-ish. Personally I prefer a bit more legato.
Don't mistake practicing and giving examples of technique for performance. If you listen to his music, you'll find that he has legato where he wants it. The study of technique includes the study of control, and it is often beneficial to exaggerate motions in practice that smooth out in performance. I just came across this thread 3 days ago, yet I have already benefitted from his ideas.
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by choctawchas » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:23 pm

guit-box wrote:I *think* he's using the word fingering to include strategies for planting. I slowed down the video and what I see is the traditional fingering for Villa Lobos Etude #1 with the following planting strategy:

1. Plant PIMA as P plays the 6th string initially
2. Keep M,A planted throughout the P,I, P,I,P
3. Keep A planted as M and then I plays, then A plays
4. No planting or just sequential planting as M,A,I,M
5 Plant PIAM as P plays and leave A,M down for remainder of descending arpeggio and into the next iteration of the pattern

(or in other words, do an ascending PIAMA plant whenever you can AND leave M,A planting whenever you can)

As someone else mentioned, it seems similar to what Charles Duncan talks about in his method book.
Nothing "New" then.

I prefer his video " Marco Tamayo talks about apoyando vs tirando in J.S.Bach" for controversial subject matter.
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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by kkruecke » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:06 am

I *think* he's using the word fingering to include strategies for planting. I slowed down the video and what I see is the traditional fingering for Villa Lobos Etude #1 with the following planting strategy:

1. Plant PIMA as P plays the 6th string initially
2. Keep M,A planted throughout the P,I, P,I,P
3. Keep A planted as M and then I plays, then A plays
4. No planting or just sequential planting as M,A,I,M
5 Plant PIAM as P plays and leave A,M down for remainder of descending arpeggio and into the next iteration of the pattern

(or in other words, do an ascending PIAMA plant whenever you can AND leave M,A planting whenever you can)
Yes, I think the technique of planting is one of things he is advocating. In his book "Essential Principles for the Interpretation on the Classical Guitar", he describes three Prepared Positions in which IMA are planted--for example in Prepared Postion I, on strings 4, 5, and 6--and the thumb also rests on string 4, I believe.

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by Tim522 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:46 am

you can take lessons from the man himself at Tonebase. I'm sure he'll clear up any question one might have about his approach.

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Re: Marco Tamayo on: "New fingerings that changed the classical guitar approach" - Video

Post by PeteJ » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:19 pm

I must be dense. I got nothing from the video although clearly some folks did. In the Villa Lobo he is using open strings to cover the loss of basses as he shifts position and I don't see what this has to do with fingering. I use a different fingering but do the same thing. He seems to be saying - use fingerings that are efficient. Is he saying more than this?

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