Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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glassynails
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Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by glassynails » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:49 pm

How did Segovia pull off the runs in, for example, Torroba's Serenata Burlesca opening E scale? Wow, that's so smooth. My fingers can't move that fast! Even the people I see play it on YT can't duplicate the 'fluidity' of Segovia's run. Was there any recording trickery going on here or did Segovia just have fast fingers?

Maybe if I practice scales for 8 hours a day like him ..... :lol:
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David Norton
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by David Norton » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:24 pm

glassynails wrote:How did Segovia pull off the runs in, for example, Torroba's Serenata Burlesca opening E scale?
Maybe if I practice scales for 8 hours a day like him ..... :lol:
You nailed it. Part-time hobbyist players like you and I, who have day jobs and other non-CG obligations, are never going to acquire that sort of skill with the constraints of limited practice time.
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glassynails
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by glassynails » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:30 pm

David_Norton wrote:
glassynails wrote:How did Segovia pull off the runs in, for example, Torroba's Serenata Burlesca opening E scale?
Maybe if I practice scales for 8 hours a day like him ..... :lol:
You nailed it. Part-time hobbyist players like you and I, who have day jobs and other non-CG obligations, are never going to acquire that sort of skill with the constraints of limited practice time.
Yeah, but if all I do is practice that particular scale run over and over all weekend David ....... who knows! :lol:

Not to toot my own horn, but I think I'm not bad for a 'part time hobbyist player'. 8)
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guitarrista
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:43 pm

It is not very fast objectively. I think the run itself is around 4 x 140bpm (16ths at 140bpm per quarter note); after that the piece gets a bit slower at around 126bpm. What makes it easier is that it is actually comprised of 3 short runs - 8 notes in each - rather than a longer continuous run of 20-30 notes at that tempo. Burst speed is easier than sustained speed. On the other hand, what makes this run harder is that it ascends (descending runs are easier).

For comparison, top flamenco guitarists can probably do up to twice that speed, for sure as burst speed (as in this run).

EDIT: Oops, forgot to include a link to the Segovia video I was basing the estimates on:

[media]https://youtu.be/PFFRYT_cD1o[/media]
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woodenhand
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by woodenhand » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:50 am

I think a better example of what you're talking about is the ascending/descending scale at the end of the Chaconne. I've never heard anyone else play that with such speed and fluidity.

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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by chiral3 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:39 am

物の哀れ

FrankBlack
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by FrankBlack » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:06 am

Wow, thank you for the Matt Palmer video. I like the fact that his speed doesn't seem to impact his tone very much. I am not interested in speed for speed's sake, but improving speed without affecting tone is a very useful skill for some songs with the need for such a thing. I may look into Matt's book.

PeteJ
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by PeteJ » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:27 pm

I conclude that for speed the most useful and crucial thing is preparation of the RH fingers, which improves by practicing staccato. This is something I've only recently discovered and it's come as something of a revelation.

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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by Jack Douglas » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:50 pm

chiral3 wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:39 am
Matt Palmer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmL7RoWkfXg
+1 for Matt Palmer
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Jack Douglas
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by Jack Douglas » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:52 pm

FrankBlack wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:06 am
Wow, thank you for the Matt Palmer video. I like the fact that his speed doesn't seem to impact his tone very much. I am not interested in speed for speed's sake, but improving speed without affecting tone is a very useful skill for some songs with the need for such a thing. I may look into Matt's book.
Matt is a great guy, very talented and humble. His book is a good purchase!
Hauser III 2014!

PeteJ
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by PeteJ » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:40 pm

A book I have here suggests that a serious player (not a pro) should be able to play scales cleanly in sixteenths at crotchet = 132. Which proves I'm not a serious player.

glassynails
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by glassynails » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:00 pm

PeteJ wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:40 pm
A book I have here suggests that a serious player (not a pro) should be able to play scales cleanly in sixteenths at crotchet = 132. Which proves I'm not a serious player.
Scales and runs have always been one of my weak points. Most likely cause I never play scales. I just can't get over the boredom of them.
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CactusWren
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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by CactusWren » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:18 am

PeteJ wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:40 pm
A book I have here suggests that a serious player (not a pro) should be able to play scales cleanly in sixteenths at crotchet = 132. Which proves I'm not a serious player.
If it were that important to you, you'd have spent the time and effort to obtain those speeds, no?

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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by PeteJ » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:34 pm

CactusWren wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:18 am
If it were that important to you, you'd have spent the time and effort to obtain those speeds, no?
If only life were so simple.

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Re: Segovia's blazing fast scale runs?

Post by riffmeister » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:28 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:43 pm
On the other hand, what makes this run harder is that it ascends (descending runs are easier).
Interesting. I've never noticed this in my own playing.

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