Segovia scales...what approach?

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
Forum rules
IV Laws governing the quotation/citation of music


For discussion of studies, scales, arpeggios and theory.
caldarella
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:34 pm
Location: Palermo, Italy

Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by caldarella » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:13 am

Hello,
I am trying to learn the Segovia scales. I always played my guitar just knowind only chords and some pentatonic scales, anyway now I want to start learning some more scales. I bought the book of Segovia Scales but I have some problem to learn the scales; I always approached the guitar by pattern methods without knowing the notes I wasplaying. According to you, what is the best approach to learn the Segovia scales and memorize them?
Thank you :)

ronjazz
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by ronjazz » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:04 pm

Use the scales themselves to learn the notes, starting with the very first one, a simple do-re-mi C major scale. Find each note with the finger indicated, work on it a few notes at a time. Do this with all the major scales, then do the minor. If you really don't read music at all, pick up any beginner's book Mel Bay Vol. 1 or any classical method book, they all introduce the basics of notation at the beginning. Scales are not just exercises, but can teach you a great deal about the fingerboard.
Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra
Lester Devoe Flamenco Blanca
Aparicio Flamenco Blanca with RMC pickup
Bartolex 7-string with RMC pickup
Giannini 7-string with Shadow pickup
Sal Pace 7-string archtop

CactusWren
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by CactusWren » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Take it slow and always make sure what note you're playing.

Learn the circle of 5ths and be able to use the formula to make any scale from the starting note.

Finally, ditch the Segovia scales. They're needlessly complicated, illogically compiled, and about the least useful scales I've ever seen. Sorry. Use Charles Duncan's scales (in his book) or any other modern scale method.

By the way, take it slow and always make sure you know what note you're playing.

One more thing, take it slow and... ;)

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by guitarrista » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:08 pm

CactusWren wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 pm
Finally, ditch the Segovia scales. They're needlessly complicated, illogically compiled, and about the least useful scales I've ever seen.
+1
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

User avatar
prawnheed
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by prawnheed » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:32 pm

CactusWren wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 pm
....

Finally, ditch the Segovia scales. They're needlessly complicated, illogically compiled, and about the least useful scales I've ever seen. Sorry. Use Charles Duncan's scales (in his book) or any other modern scale method.

....
To quote from Charles Duncan's book: "As a coordination and velocity exercise, practising the Segovia scales is still unsurpassed."

User avatar
prawnheed
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by prawnheed » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:49 pm

This might help.

viewtopic.php?t=59233

CactusWren
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by CactusWren » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:01 am

prawnheed wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:32 pm
CactusWren wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 pm
....

Finally, ditch the Segovia scales. They're needlessly complicated, illogically compiled, and about the least useful scales I've ever seen. Sorry. Use Charles Duncan's scales (in his book) or any other modern scale method.

....
To quote from Charles Duncan's book: "As a coordination and velocity exercise, practising the Segovia scales is still unsurpassed."
He has more than one book, and even writers can learn.

Duncan's Classical Guitar 2000 illustrates a scale system superior to Segovia's. But really--they all are.

User avatar
prawnheed
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by prawnheed » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:01 am

CactusWren wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:01 am
prawnheed wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:32 pm
CactusWren wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 pm
....

Finally, ditch the Segovia scales. They're needlessly complicated, illogically compiled, and about the least useful scales I've ever seen. Sorry. Use Charles Duncan's scales (in his book) or any other modern scale method.

....
To quote from Charles Duncan's book: "As a coordination and velocity exercise, practising the Segovia scales is still unsurpassed."
He has more than one book, and even writers can learn.

Duncan's Classical Guitar 2000 illustrates a scale system superior to Segovia's. But really--they all are.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far you have offered nothing other than an opinion expressed as if it were a fact. I am certain you are not able to offer enough evidence to convince me that ALL other scale systems are better than Segovia's. I'll take that as hyperbole and I'd be happy for you to try and convince me that any ONE other is.

User avatar
georgemarousi
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:10 am

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by georgemarousi » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:24 am

Hi, which book do you have?

I have the below:

"Diatonic Major And Minor Scales Book"

Assuming you have this book too, note that I play all of them as part of my warm up. ( there are just all major (1st part) and then all minor (2nd part) scales, as mentioned, on 2 or 3 octaves where possible, up and down ).

The may look and are not very usable to improvise, but I find them useful in many other ways ( understand the theory and where this is it on the fretboard, as a great left/right hand exercise etc.. )

Moreover, on repertoire there are scale parts that actually include part of those exercises ( for example, at the middle of Villa lobos etude 2 ).

As for memorization, dont worry, there are mostly a few repeatable modes here too, you will find them out as you learn the book.

My vote is yes, learn them and use them as part of your warm up.
Paulino Bernabe Especial 2009
Ramirez 1A 1980
Pavlos Gypas 1989
Panagi Brothers 1970
Juan Martinez nr 55 2014 (the comeback)
Yamaha cg 110 1988 (the 1st)
--
2014: the comeback

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:52 pm

prawnheed wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:01 am
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far you have offered nothing other than an opinion expressed as if it were a fact.
This works in both directions - where is your evidence that Segovia's scales are still unsurpassed and what exactly makes them so much better than more recent systematic approaches?
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:00 pm

To the original poster: If you DO decide to learn the Segovia scales, maybe take a look at this guide by David Aitken.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

User avatar
prawnheed
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by prawnheed » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:20 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:52 pm
prawnheed wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:01 am
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far you have offered nothing other than an opinion expressed as if it were a fact.
This works in both directions - where is your evidence that Segovia's scales are still unsurpassed and what exactly makes them so much better than more recent systematic approaches?
I have never made such a claim.

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:33 pm

prawnheed wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:20 pm
guitarrista wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:52 pm
prawnheed wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:01 am
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far you have offered nothing other than an opinion expressed as if it were a fact.
This works in both directions - where is your evidence that Segovia's scales are still unsurpassed and what exactly makes them so much better than more recent systematic approaches?
I have never made such a claim.
You did by arguing from authority through Charles Duncan: "To quote from Charles Duncan's book: "As a coordination and velocity exercise, practising the Segovia scales is still unsurpassed." ". Or was that a total coincidence and a completely random quote? :-)
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

User avatar
prawnheed
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by prawnheed » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:44 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:33 pm
prawnheed wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:20 pm
guitarrista wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:52 pm


This works in both directions - where is your evidence that Segovia's scales are still unsurpassed and what exactly makes them so much better than more recent systematic approaches?
I have never made such a claim.
You did by arguing from authority through Charles Duncan: "To quote from Charles Duncan's book: "As a coordination and velocity exercise, practising the Segovia scales is still unsurpassed." ". Or was that a total coincidence and a completely random quote? :-)
The quote was used to refute a claim that they are "the least useful I have every seen." The irony that the quote came from the person who's work was supposed to supplant Segovias was too good to be missed.

Refuting a claim does not establish an equally extreme counter claim.

I happen to think Segovia's scales are fine. Many other people's scales are fine. They are just scales and, barring obvious errors, they do what scales do.

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Segovia scales...what approach?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:52 pm

Refuting does not mean what you seem to think it means, but OK. I am not interested in pursuing this further. I would have liked to hear what is so much better about the Segovia scales specific fingerings and the particular patterns used.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Return to “Classical Guitar technique”