New teacher advice

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
Forum rules
IV Laws governing the quotation/citation of music


For discussion of studies, scales, arpeggios and theory.
kmurdick
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Re: New teacher advice

Post by kmurdick » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:50 pm

Guitar Nut says, "The middle joint I have almost no control over and I don't seem to be able to move it independently from the base and tip joints, and even at its most extreme movement it's only a few degrees."

The middle joint doesn't move much, it mainly provides support.

dtoh
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: New teacher advice

Post by dtoh » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:23 pm

kmurdick wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:36 pm
I would say that the middle joint only moves about 10 degrees.
The ROM on the middle joint varies tremendously by person. It's typically between 30 and 45 degrees but there are quite a few people who have 90 degree ROM in this joint.

User avatar
prawnheed
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: New teacher advice

Post by prawnheed » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:38 pm

dtoh wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:23 pm
kmurdick wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:36 pm
I would say that the middle joint only moves about 10 degrees.
The ROM on the middle joint varies tremendously by person. It's typically between 30 and 45 degrees but there are quite a few people who have 90 degree ROM in this joint.
To back this up, my left thumb I can independently move through very close to 90 degrees and a bit more if I put pressure on it. My right thumb, on the other hand (obviously) only move through about 20 degrees and even then only when I close the first joint - I can't move it independently at all.

I am right handed, never had any major injuries to either thumb.

Todd Tipton
Teacher
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:21 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

Re: New teacher advice

Post by Todd Tipton » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:42 pm

Tom Poore wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:19 pm
Since you’re in the process of choosing a teacher, this might be helpful:

http://www.pooretom.com/choosingateacher.html

By the way, I see no red flags regarding the advice your teacher is giving you. That said, I’m loath to second-guess someone else’s teacher, particularly when that teacher is working directly with the student and I’m not.

Tom Poore
South Euclid, OH
USA
I second this advice.

The first thing a student of mine learns to play is a free stroke with the right hand thumb. Before a student does that, I have them do a simple exercise: Hold out your right hand with the palm facing up. Allow your thumb to touch your pinky a few times. Congratulations, you have discovered the wrist joint. It is important to use it when playing. :-)
Dr. Todd Tipton, classical guitarist
Cincinnati, OH, USA (available via Skype)

Philosopherguy
Posts: 975
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 am
Location: Niagara, Ontario, Canada

Re: New teacher advice

Post by Philosopherguy » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:58 pm

In most applications when playing with your thumb, all the joints move to some extent. From what you said, your teacher is likely trying to correct your over-reliance on the middle and end joint without using much of the 3rd joint. Then again, I haven't seen you play so I would have no idea.

If you trust your teacher you should follow the lessons and just go with it. As you start to learn what direction the teacher is going, his reasoning may become more apparent. Sometimes when you learn its good to over-emphasize certain movements in order to bring about the desired result. Real results can take a while and you have to be patient. When you start with new lessons sometimes it's a hard transition to un-learn old habits in order to become a better player. You have to have patience and trust. If you don't trust your teacher, maybe you should find someone you do trust. I assume you went with this teacher because they have some sort of credentials, or they are a good player/performer? If that is the case, rely on their experience and ask questions. If this is just some random person who is teaching lessons, perhaps you better establish that you trust them somehow!

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

Todd Tipton
Teacher
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:21 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

Re: New teacher advice

Post by Todd Tipton » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:41 pm

Philosopherguy wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:58 pm
In most applications when playing with your thumb, all the joints move to some extent. From what you said, your teacher is likely trying to correct your over-reliance on the middle and end joint without using much of the 3rd joint. Then again, I haven't seen you play so I would have no idea.
Great post. I just want to comment on something you said quoted above. I think this is a very good example of something that happens many times: we seem to hear the opposite advice from one teacher to another, and we are left thinking, "Who is right?" Or perhaps we are left thinking, "You have to find what works for you and go with it." However, what is often happening is a lack of context to the situation. Without context, I could easily see myself giving opposite advice to two different students on the same day. As another example, one student may be told to relax their tip joints, while another may be told that more tension is needed. In this situation, neither way leads to any good general advice in good default playing. In both cases though, it is an attempt to meet the student in a very unique circumstance, and correct something.
Dr. Todd Tipton, classical guitarist
Cincinnati, OH, USA (available via Skype)

Return to “Classical Guitar technique”