La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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SteveL123
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La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by SteveL123 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:21 pm

In this masterclass, Mr. Caballero teaches that using PAMI fingers with the A playing a rest stroke on the melody and free strokes with M & I is an old technique from the days of Tarrega playing without nails. With modern technique of flesh and nails, he explains it is better to not use the A finger and use PMI alternation instead.

To players and teachers of this piece:
Which way do you play and teach the Preludio and do you agree with Mr Caballero?

I learned to play this piece using the old way of PAMI alternation. After seeing this masterclass, I tried using PMI alternation and after a bit of adjustment (concentrating on hitting the drone note correctly) I was able to play it somewhat cleanly. But I am not sure if I should switch the pattern to PMI. The audio in the masterclass is not very clear so I may have missed some of his points.

Last edited by SteveL123 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

merry_zhao
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Location: China

Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by merry_zhao » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:07 pm

If you can produce the same quality of tone by free strok, just go with it, or else restroke.

Nick Cutroneo
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Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:16 pm

I just wanted this video last night! To me, Caballero's main focus on changing that fingering was due to the sound quality of the A finger. Many players adjust their RH fingering based upon sound quality. Many players will also tend to limit the A finger if they are dissatisfied with the sound projection of that finger. Ana Vidovic will play tremolo with PMIM because she dislikes the sound of her A finger in that situation.

To me while a professional who has solidified his technical ability can/does/and should make choices like this, for a student I personally think it's better to use a situation like this to learn how to perfect his balance of all 4 fingers. Also, learning how to achieve bringing out the melody with and without rest stroke is equally as important.

Personally I wish there was more exploration of the harmonic changes over the pretty "simple" harmony - there's a lot going on in that prelude!
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

SteveL123
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Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:33 pm

merry_zhao, please listen to Caballero again. I think he was advocating not using rest stroke for the melody and not using the A finger at all in the arppegio!

Nick Cutroneo, you make a good point of developing all the fingers when learning. I need to pay more attention to tone production from each finger.

Nick Cutroneo
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Location: Manchester, CT

Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:37 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:33 pm
Nick Cutroneo, you make a good point of developing all the fingers when learning. I need to pay more attention to tone production from each finger.
It's a hard balance between "developing and improvement" with performance of a given piece. If I were in a situation where the performance was coming up and my current way of playing didn't produce the results I wanted, I'd make a change to get what I wanted. That might mean a different fingering, different phrasing/etc... However, if I'm working and studying a piece, and have time to invest into developing something I didn't have before, I'd put that time in. And many times it's not a black and white answer...
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

merry_zhao
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Location: China

Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by merry_zhao » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:42 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:33 pm
merry_zhao, please listen to Caballero again. I think he was advocating not using rest stroke for the melody and not using the A finger at all in the arppegio!

Nick Cutroneo, you make a good point of developing all the fingers when learning. I need to pay more attention to tone production from each finger.
Any other link? I can't open the banned site, I am in China.

SteveL123
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:44 am

merry_zhao wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:42 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:33 pm
merry_zhao, please listen to Caballero again. I think he was advocating not using rest stroke for the melody and not using the A finger at all in the arppegio!

Nick Cutroneo, you make a good point of developing all the fingers when learning. I need to pay more attention to tone production from each finger.
Any other link? I can't open the banned site, I am in China.
That's a youtube link. Is youtube banned in China? Is there a workaround? Don't get yourself in trouble trying! What kind of punishment will be dealt if you get caught?

guit-box
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Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by guit-box » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:06 pm

Azabagic appears to also not use the a finger. He seems to be using pim for the arp and i for the melody
Search youtube for h1iHL23FFZQ to find it.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

Rasqeo
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Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by Rasqeo » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:22 pm

What fingering is Caballero suggesting then? I cannot make it out from the video. Is it m,i,p,p,p,i,m,i for the first bars?

Rasqeo
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Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by Rasqeo » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:09 pm

Having looked at it again I think he migh be playing: m,i,m,p,p,i,m,i

SteveL123
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: La Catedral Preludio masterclass Jorge Caballero

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:20 am

guit-box wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:06 pm
Azabagic appears to also not use the a finger. He seems to be using pim for the arp and i for the melody
Search youtube for h1iHL23FFZQ to find it.
Azabagic does appear to use pim for arpeggio and i for the melody. I tried it and find it awkward.


Ana Vidovic appears to also use pim for arpeggio but use both i and m for the melody.

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