ARRASTRE-Aguado "New Guitar Method"

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sal
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ARRASTRE-Aguado "New Guitar Method"

Post by sal » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:07 pm

Working in Aguado new method and have a question on "arrastre". Aguado says the left hand must be turned towards the body of guitar, AND THE ARM MUST NOT MOVE- Is that correct? No arm movement? I am trying to do it just movingat the wrist, but there is definite movement happening at the forearm. Id appreciate any advice or insight.

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guitarrista
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Re: ARRASTRE-Aguado "New Guitar Method"

Post by guitarrista » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:05 pm

sal wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:07 pm
Working in Aguado new method and have a question on "arrastre". Aguado says the left hand must be turned towards the body of guitar, AND THE ARM MUST NOT MOVE- Is that correct? No arm movement? I am trying to do it just moving at the wrist, but there is definite movement happening at the forearm. Id appreciate any advice or insight.
I take it that this instruction from Aguado is obsolete and not considered appropriate anymore. For example, there is a 1996 Thesis by C. van der Walt titled "THE RELEVANCE OF THE TEACHING METHODS OF DIONISIO AGUADO, FERNANDO SOR AND ANDRES SEGOVIA FOR GUITAR TECHNIQUE IN THE LATE 20TH CENTURY"; pdf freely available from her university by downloading from this page: http://uir.unisa.ac.za/handle/10500/16283

In Chapter 3 she goes over this specific Aguado method. It might be of interest to you to read through all of it. The "Arrastre" is mentioned in section 3.7.8 and there is a related discussion on Aguado's advice about the left elbow/arm in section 3.7.4. You can see there that the "do not move arm/elbow" instruction is not considered valid; Carlevaro and Duncan, among others, are quoted as to why.
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

sal
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Re: ARRASTRE-Aguado "New Guitar Method"

Post by sal » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:51 am

thank you so much for the link and info. Will definitely read it.

RobMacKillop
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Re: ARRASTRE-Aguado "New Guitar Method"

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:09 am

His teaching might not be relevant to those who are not the slightest bit interested in how he played, and how that influenced his compositions. But for those of us who are interested in such things, his writings are hugely relevant. Imposing modern concepts on old music is fraught with danger. Some aspects can be good, interesting, useful, but others can be ugly and baffling. I won't name names....

Let's look at what Aguado says - and I only have the English translation, which in itself is also a danger.

Arrastre: "A two-note slur can also be played with one finger only, and this is known as an arrastre. To make it easier the left hand must be turned appreciably towards the body of the guitar, and the arm must not move."

This can be interpreted a few ways. Sal, the OP, mentions moving his wrist, and can't stop the forearm moving. With respect, Sal, I think this is a wrong reading of the text. He seems to me to be suggesting the palm of the hand swivels to face the body of the guitar, rather than parallel to the fretboard. In doing so, the arm is not moving out of its position. He then goes on to say:

"The ascending arrastre is easy because the hand moves naturally towards the player's body; the descending arrastre is difficult because in playing it the hand moves diagonally and nearly horizontally away from the body in a line followed by the strings over all the area covered by the arrastre."

Again, not 100% clear. Given that these arrastre are shown to cover minor third distance and more, and his Lesson 36 over the page shows arrastre in 3rds, sixths and octaves. It's impossible to do these without moving the arm. I interpret his comment that "the arm must not move" as being related to the approach to playing the arrastre, the turning of the palm towards the body of the guitar. Once in a position, the arm must be engaged in moving from start note to end note, as outlined in the second quotation above.

I have no problem with this. All he seems to be saying is that it is easier to slide along a string if the palm is facing the body of the guitar, as opposed to the palm being parallel to the string.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: ARRASTRE-Aguado "New Guitar Method"

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:42 am

RobMacKillop wrote:His teaching might not be relevant to those who are not the slightest bit interested in how he played, and how that influenced his compositions. But for those of us who are interested in such things, his writings are hugely relevant. Imposing modern concepts on old music is fraught with danger.
Agree wholeheartedly.
RobMacKillop wrote:I won't name names....
Oh, go on.

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