Right Hand Fingering

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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scottdetroit
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Right Hand Fingering

Post by scottdetroit » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:16 am

I was hoping someone could comment on my right-hand fingering of this music. (The LH fingering is from the original). My teacher says that I should figure out the RH fingering before I start working on a piece of music, so I want to make sure I get it right in the first place.

Feel free to be brutal :D

Thanks
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Desperado
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Desperado » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:11 am

I don't think there is a wrong or right way to finger a piece it's more an individual, personal desicion and reflects what works for you. As long as you don't distort the rhythm or note values you should be ok. Your choice of fingering in this excerpt seems use the ring finger which for me is complicated and unnecessary. Keep it simple, this applies to the left hand too - I would play in primary positions and make sure if your going to slur a phrase make sure you do it elsewhere eg.bar5 no slur..why?

scottdetroit
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by scottdetroit » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:44 am

Thanks, Desperado.

You are right about bar 5 I forgot the slur. I'm learning MuseScore3 -- I'd like to do some arranging and composing eventually, and I missed it.

as for right-hand fingering. I just had my first guitar lesson after many years. My new teacher tells me my ring finger is weak ( absolutely correct!) She told me that I should write out the RH fingering before I attempt to master a piece and that one of the biggest flaws in my playing is that I'm alternating RH fingers. I want to play this piece well so I think Im going to take your advice but continue to do exercises like the Giulani right hand studies.

Terpfan
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Terpfan » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:40 pm

It's not bad but I would avoid too much MA.

Crofty
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Crofty » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:14 pm

Terpfan wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:40 pm
I would avoid too much MA.

Why?

Crofty
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Crofty » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:25 pm

Hi Scott

You are obviously giving the rh a lot of thought [and well done to your teacher for encouraging you in this - rh is often neglected imo]

I'd suggest that you try to establish patterns of fingering. For example the slurs could all be handled by the same pair of fingers rather than, as you do, altering the choices.

From the second half of bar five you use three different alternations for just five consecutive slurs. I can't actually see any reason for that by the way and keeping to consistent patterns really helps to ingrain what you're doing very quickly.

I'd prefer keeping the "a" finger opposing the thumb in that slurred section, simply because of the distance between bass and treble but, of course, "m" is also fine.

Paul

Terpfan
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Terpfan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:54 am

Crofty wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:14 pm
Terpfan wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:40 pm
I would avoid too much MA.

Why?
MA is not as secure as IM, and there is plenty of option to use IM instead.

Crofty
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Crofty » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:10 am

Terpfan wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:54 am
Crofty wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:14 pm
Terpfan wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:40 pm
I would avoid too much MA.

Why?
MA is not as secure as IM, and there is plenty of option to use IM instead.
Seems fairly obvious to me that MA stands no chance of becoming "secure" if you only let it out for special occasions. Personally I have no problem with it and certainly not in the slur passage Scott refers to where speed is not an issue.

Terpfan
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Terpfan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:04 am

Crofty wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:10 am
Terpfan wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:54 am
Crofty wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:14 pm



Why?
MA is not as secure as IM, and there is plenty of option to use IM instead.
Seems fairly obvious to me that MA stands no chance of becoming "secure" if you only let it out for special occasions. Personally I have no problem with it and certainly not in the slur passage Scott refers to where speed is not an issue.
If you take it to Rodrigo's Fantasia para un Gentilhombre tempo, it could posess some problems.

Terpfan
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Terpfan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:12 am

There seems to be more AM alternation than IM. Most teacher would agree with more IM I believe.

Crofty
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Crofty » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:55 pm

When fingering each note of the triplet runs I use AMI - for slurs A then M.

Works perfectly, either way, at a high tempo.

Regardless of that I don't think it a good idea to discourage a beginner/new player from working on such fingerings.

Luis_Br
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Luis_Br » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:06 pm

If AM is played well, no problem with that. But there is a problem of finger repetition. For example, first measure after first slur, you choose M then AM. Would do I then AM, or M then IA, or A again (there is a slur) and IM. There is no problem with finger repetition if piece is slow, or you want to keep sound consistency. But I don't think this is the case, the piece is fast and consistency shouldn't be an issue in this situation.

For the fast case I would also try keeping more repeated patterns through out, which helps building a quick reflex, rather than simply choosing any finger. Actually even for slow pieces, patterns help memorization and playing security. A lot of things can be changed thinking like this. For example, measure 5 you start M-slur-A, keep MA in measure 6, but change completely to IM and then AM in measure 7. I would keep the same through out, probably MI. There are others less obvious cases, finding patterns is a nice puzzle, but you get better as you think it by yourself.

Besieds that, be flexible to try out different fingerings and even practice with different fingerings until you discover which work best for you.

I don't see rest strokes markings, do you use rest strokes?
I don't see dynamics markings either.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed May 01, 2019 8:08 am

The advice from Crofty (and later repeated by Luis_br) is sage:
Crofty wrote:I'd suggest that you try to establish patterns of fingering. For example the slurs could all be handled by the same pair of fingers rather than, as you do, altering the choices.

From the second half of bar five you use three different alternations for just five consecutive slurs. I can't actually see any reason for that by the way and keeping to consistent patterns really helps to ingrain what you're doing very quickly.
Luis_Br wrote:... I would also try keeping more repeated patterns through out, which helps building a quick reflex, rather than simply choosing any finger. Actually even for slow pieces, patterns help memorization and playing security.

Pjer
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Pjer » Thu May 02, 2019 7:28 am

Hi, when I work with my students, I always suggest that they should practice technics, such as scales, im, mi, ma, AM ami,ect. Scales on 3string, 6 strings, two octave scale, 3 octave. Chromatic scales of 4,5, or 8 notes and to do that whit understanding .To relax the RH. Abel Carlevaro book for RH, such a great book ect.
After all that you should input your techic and your ideas and ability of techic in to the piece that you working on. There must no write or wrong fingering,
Dominique Delarue 1998 cedar, Andreas Kirmse 2016 cedar, John Price 2006 cedar, Achim Peters Gropius 2017 spruce, Zoran Kuvac 2017 cedar

Terpfan
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Re: Right Hand Fingering

Post by Terpfan » Fri May 03, 2019 2:55 am

Pjer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 7:28 am
There must no right or wrong fingering,
Maybe, but you have to stick with one fingering.

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