Double stops fast

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Desperado
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Double stops fast

Post by Desperado » Wed May 01, 2019 3:32 pm

How do you double stop, fast. Thirds - rh im - do you use just small rh finger movements or a bit of tension and 'bounce' the right hand or a combination of both?
Lh - for example anscending scale in thirds on just two strings- how do you practise one motion withe the left arm I guess like a chromatic scale with one finger?

soltirefa
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by soltirefa » Wed May 01, 2019 6:38 pm

I don't have an answer, but this makes me think of BWV 996 Gigue.

guit-box
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by guit-box » Wed May 01, 2019 9:03 pm

I also find repeated fast 3rds or block chords difficult. I feel like this Sor study Op 6 No 6 works best for me if I feel like I'm bouncing on a trampoline, so that that the whole arm presses the strings down and then the release can be a minimal movement. That said, I'd like to hear some answers because I don't feel like I have the repeated chord movement figured out yet.

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Alexander Kalil
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by Alexander Kalil » Thu May 02, 2019 11:17 am

Desperado wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:32 pm
How do you double stop, fast. Thirds - rh im - do you use just small rh finger movements or a bit of tension and 'bounce' the right hand
The technique is essentially the same whether you repeat one or multiple fingers (chords). To achieve your maximum speed you'll need to use both the finger and the arm. Here's a simple test: plant pma on the strings and repeat i alone, going as fast as you can while maintaining a clear and strong tone; now free your fingers from planting and again pluck i repeatedly, going as fast as you can with a strong and clear tone. I bet you'll notice a slight increase in speed, resulting from the arm being involved in each stroke. Of course, the arm movements need to be well controlled so as not to lose volume or precision. I've found that at maximum speed with repeated fingers I feel a participation of each individual joint of the hand and arm in the stroke - middle and knuckle joints of the finger, wrist and elbow joints (very slightly, barely noticeable) and shoulder joint (inward/outward rotation).

Joey Grimaldi
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by Joey Grimaldi » Fri May 03, 2019 12:48 pm

Practice! Start slow and gradually push the speed

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jaan
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by jaan » Fri May 03, 2019 1:31 pm

Depends for me. I find I can repeat an ma stroke faster than an im stroke, so i'll do that generally. If I need more speed than I can get with repeated am strokes, and if the bassline allows, I like to alternate pi pm.

If I can't get p involved (Rossiniane #3, e.g.), then it's about holding a little tension and practicing a quick extension to prepare for the next stroke. I do that by playing super staccato in the right hand, immediately pre-placing ma after the previous stroke (a technique I use for a lot of fast right hand passages).

Re LH, I don't try to think of it as a single smooth, fluid gesture, as that makes me less accurate. If you are relaxed, quick, and accurate, it will look like a single gesture, but that thought process gets in the way for me.


Taking a stab here, but is it Rossiniane #3 you're asking about? I hate that passage. Except when it works, then I love that passage.
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robert e
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by robert e » Fri May 03, 2019 5:45 pm

LH: leading with the elbow can make big shifts quicker and smoother. For some short shifts, one can "throw" the hand from the wrist for speed (either direction). Thumb placement and mobility is important and worth examining.

I hear it's good to get in the habit of shifting as quickly as possible even in slow passages or slow practice.

My RH sucks, so no advice from me there :lol:

Crofty
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by Crofty » Sat May 04, 2019 11:26 am

Alexander: I was interested in your analysis and advice. I think I must do these things intuitively/instinctively [which is, I guess, what we largely do most of the time] and have been a bit lazy in thinking it all through.

I am very uncomfortable with repeating individual fingers generally and I'd often thought that it was odd that it felt entirely natural and comfortable when playing with more than one, repeatedly.

Anyway, I think you have provided the answer so thanks!

Paul

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guitareleven
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by guitareleven » Sat May 04, 2019 5:35 pm

For a passage in parallel thirds, try using p-a; i-m; p-a; i-m etc. ,..

Google "handel courante 11-string" , and you'll hear it being used on a few places.
Last edited by guitareleven on Mon May 06, 2019 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Desperado
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by Desperado » Sun May 05, 2019 6:35 am

jaan wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:31 pm


Taking a stab here, but is it Rossiniane #3 you're asking about?
Hi Jaan,
The piece is barrueco's Paganini sonata in EMinor. There's a section in thirds where the phrases shift with the first finger per quaver- a lot of shifting!

RobMacKillop
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by RobMacKillop » Sun May 05, 2019 8:00 am

Aguado, in his Method, suggests using only the index finger of the right hand, crossing both strings at once. Seems a good solution to me if the diads are on adjacent strings.

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Alexander Kalil
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Re: Double stops fast

Post by Alexander Kalil » Mon May 06, 2019 3:45 pm

Paul, glad to be of help. For practicing fast repeated chords I recommend Sor's study Op.35 No.11. It is more focused and requires less stamina than Op.6 No.6, and is musically more interesting imo. Here's the link to a recording of this little study I just made and posted in the recording section:

www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopi ... 4#p1356244

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