Sor, and loving it

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Daan Hoeksema
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Daan Hoeksema » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:25 am

In the last 2 years I have bought all Sor's solo books on Tecla.com. There are a lot of divertementi everyone can play. Most people only use the etudes/exercises/studies because they are the only ones which are fingered.

It should be a very good project to finger all the Sor pieces and put them on Delcamp.

Daan
Het veulen dat haar moeder naar de slacht zag gaan. "Hou je taai mam".

boral

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by boral » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:03 pm

Are the choice of 20 etudes of Sor by Segovia arranged in a progressive way ?

boral

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by boral » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:57 am

boral wrote:Are the choice of 20 etudes of Sor by Segovia arranged in a progressive way ?
By progressive I meant "gradual"; from less difficult to difficult

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freestroke
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by freestroke » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:24 pm

boral wrote:
boral wrote:Are the choice of 20 etudes of Sor by Segovia arranged in a progressive way ?
By progressive I meant "gradual"; from less difficult to difficult
It's been discussed here, but possibly on a deleted cafe thread or something. They are sort of in order, but I guess it's whether a particular study addresses something you have a knack for or not. Some say No1 is a level 9, some say a level 3; I know it's the first one I learned, bu if you do all the muting necessary to play it well, it gets pretty tough, while merely hitting all the notes is pretty easy. No 2 and 3 are very easy, if you ask me, 4 is sort of like a harder version of 3, 5 and 6 only fractionally harder. No 9 is easier than 7 or 8 for me. I'd say that 10 and 11 are of similar difficulty, but I think 10 is harder to play well. No 12 is not all that bad at slow pace, but I could never get it up to anything like a decent speed -- not that I worked on it much. No 13 is easier than any since No 6 and remains one of my staple pieces to this day. No 14 is harder than 15, 16 is starting to get up there, and the final three are quite a bit harder than the first three, no doubt. Once upon a time, I could get through No 20 clean, but there was a lot of tension and effort and it sounded like crap -- at the time I couldn't handle No 19 at all. I still can't seem to play 19 for some reason, maybe because I've got too many neurons dedicated to doing it wrong at this point. :lol: Fortunately, my return to No 17 recently has gone a lot better. :D
Hell is full of amateur musicians -- GB Shaw

boral

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by boral » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:55 pm

freestroke,

Many many thanks for your reply. :merci:
I really didn't want to jump into the etudes without some sort of explanation.
I am learning by myself and so this is valuable information.
Sorry for my bad English

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freestroke
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by freestroke » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:23 pm

boral wrote:freestroke,

Many many thanks for your reply. :merci:
I really didn't want to jump into the etudes without some sort of explanation.
I am learning by myself and so this is valuable information.
Sorry for my bad English
More than welcome. (Hope I don't catch TOO much flak for my opinions from the real players here. :oops: ) And I never even made a serious attempt at 18 -- seems really tough.

Never apologize for your English! You're doing better than most! :okok:
Hell is full of amateur musicians -- GB Shaw

guitaradelic

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by guitaradelic » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:33 pm

boral wrote:Are the choice of 20 etudes of Sor by Segovia arranged in a progressive way ?
For what it is worth, on another thread, it was suggested these are just Segovia's favorites. I will leave it to the experts here to extrapolate further whether or not they are progressive. They are enjoyable to play. If you are looking for progressive studies, you may want to explore Carcassi's 25 Etudes (Opus 60), I find them to be challenging, interesting and musically satisfying. IMHO.

Cuyler

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Cuyler » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:07 pm

I would think just by looking at the list of Segovia's Sor studies, that they must not be in progressive order because they are not in the same order that Sor used. Why would Segovia come up with his own numbering?

Too bad there is no overview that explains what each piece is supposed to teach. I don't think it has been mentioned on this thread, but there is a nice website on Sor called 19-Century Guitar Performance.

Ah.. I see related discussions in these other threads:

ClassicMaster

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by ClassicMaster » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:27 am

Cuyler wrote:I would think just by looking at the list of Segovia's Sor studies, that they must not be in progressive order because they are not in the same order that Sor used. Why would Segovia come up with his own numbering?

Too bad there is no overview that explains what each piece is supposed to teach. I don't think it has been mentioned on this thread, but there is a nice website on Sor called 19-Century Guitar Performance.

Ah.. I see related discussions in these other threads:
WOW thanks for the british Sor website
i doesn't knew it. :merci:

Cuyler

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Cuyler » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:18 am

Evelyn wrote:I sight read from my book (Mel Bay's "Complete Sor Studies") every day and at the same time I look for my next victim. So many of them are truly gems. Many of them are way too hard for me! But I can tell that my reading and playing are getting much better.
I found the first few Sor opus 60 studies in a library book and now I want more. I tried to play the B minor Etude from Noad's Solo Guitar Playing -- it is still well beyond my capabilities, but I am not letting that discouraging me. I discovered the Opus 35 mp3's posted by Wim Hoogewerf -- they are wonderful listening and I am sure trying to learn them has great educational value.

It isn't hard to find the complete set of studies on the Internet (and there are many of them in the Delcamp collection). So I am not sure it's necessary to buy Mel Bay's Complete Sor Studies book. There is also a Tecla version that I think is just a cleaned up facsimile of those public domain Sor scores.

However, I just discovered that Mel Bay also has a collection titled Fernando Sor: The Complete Studies for Guitar in Urtext (it is easy to find if you google "Sor utext"). I was not familiar with the term "urtext" until I looked it up on Wikipedia. At first, I thought it might mean the music is just described like "ur.. the first note is C, followed by an ur.. B and then ur.. a G".

Anyway, does anyone recommend this urtext edition of Sor's studies? It looks useful for clueless people like me because it has lots of recommendations for both left and right hand fingering. Also there are brief descriptions of the pieces. An appendix even gives a suggested grading of the pieces (a table categorizing the levels of difficulty). You can read these sections if you locate the book on that site named after a Brazilian river and do a "Search Inside This Book" for the word "grading".

There is also a Segovia edition of the Sor studies. How are they different than the real studies written by Sor? I am more inclined to get the complete set written the way the original composer intended.

Cuyler

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Cuyler » Sat May 23, 2009 7:08 pm

I ordered the Chanterelle edition of Fernando Sor -- The Complete Studies for Guitar and am quite happy with it. While some of the studies are more challenging, quite a few that are suitable for beginners. I don't know if there is any great advantage to owning the urtext edition, but the book does have a few pages of additional material. One of them is a suggested grading by Richard Savino. Opp. 6 and 29 are the most difficult, while opp. 60, 44, 35 and 31 are a mix of beginning to intermediate levels. He lists these as the easiest pieces to tackle:
  • opus 60: 1 to 11
  • opus 44: 1 to 3
  • opus 35: 1 to 4
  • opus 31: 1, 3 and 11
I have been practicing opus 60 nos. 1 and 2 along with opus 35 nos. 1, 3 and 22 which is plenty for me right now. I am not sure what is about the Sor pieces that makes them so special, but they are wonderful.

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mverive
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by mverive » Sun May 24, 2009 9:20 pm

Cuyler wrote:
Evelyn wrote:I sight read from my book (Mel Bay's "Complete Sor Studies") every day and at the same time I look for my next victim. So many of them are truly gems. Many of them are way too hard for me! But I can tell that my reading and playing are getting much better.
I found the first few Sor opus 60 studies in a library book and now I want more. I tried to play the B minor Etude from Noad's Solo Guitar Playing -- it is still well beyond my capabilities, but I am not letting that discouraging me. I discovered the Opus 35 mp3's posted by Wim Hoogewerf -- they are wonderful listening and I am sure trying to learn them has great educational value.

It isn't hard to find the complete set of studies on the Internet (and there are many of them in the Delcamp collection). So I am not sure it's necessary to buy Mel Bay's Complete Sor Studies book. There is also a Tecla version that I think is just a cleaned up facsimile of those public domain Sor scores.

However, I just discovered that Mel Bay also has a collection titled Fernando Sor: The Complete Studies for Guitar in Urtext (it is easy to find if you google "Sor utext"). I was not familiar with the term "urtext" until I looked it up on Wikipedia. At first, I thought it might mean the music is just described like "ur.. the first note is C, followed by an ur.. B and then ur.. a G".

Anyway, does anyone recommend this urtext edition of Sor's studies? It looks useful for clueless people like me because it has lots of recommendations for both left and right hand fingering. Also there are brief descriptions of the pieces. An appendix even gives a suggested grading of the pieces (a table categorizing the levels of difficulty). You can read these sections if you locate the book on that site named after a Brazilian river and do a "Search Inside This Book" for the word "grading".

There is also a Segovia edition of the Sor studies. How are they different than the real studies written by Sor? I am more inclined to get the complete set written the way the original composer intended.

I have both the Mel Bay (softcover) and Tecla (hardcover, complete works, not just the studies). Both are easy to read, and the Tecla collections gives a lot of information including Sor's writings and recommendations for various pieces. In fact, I felt a bit ashamed when I heard Sor's Opus 45, and decided to attemmpt to learn it before learning much more of his material. Then I found out that he wrote it in response to requests for music of his that was easy enough for the non-virtuoso, so he in essence wrote the pieces in Opus 45 for people who were too impatient to learn his method!

The Tecla edition is also available in paperback (either the studies collection, or the complete works), which I may get just so that I can keep the hardcover volumes in great condition to hand down to one (or both) of my daughters if they develop a love for CG, which of course I hope happens for both of them.

The Mel Bay is spiral bound, so it lays flat for easy playing, and the music is easy to read. You can find it used (and quite inexpensive), and it's true to the Tecla editions (as far as I can tell), which are likely to be as close to the original scores as you're going to get.

Mike
"(P)Lay on, MacDuff, And damn'd be him that first cries, 'Hold, enough!'"

underho

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by underho » Mon May 25, 2009 8:33 am

THanks for Sharing!

It's very helpful to my Sor' studies

David McHarg

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by David McHarg » Mon May 25, 2009 1:50 pm

Yip. Sor studies etc are wonderful. I have been playing for years and i use many of the Sor studies for sight reading etc. I feel like i am rediscovering these pieces. Sor, Giuliana, Carcassi, Coste all wonderful.

Cheers
David.

gregwillow
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by gregwillow » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:48 pm

The First composer to start adventure with classical music.

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