Sor, and loving it

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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dory
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by dory » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:36 pm

My favorite composer has long been Sor. I guess only a guitarist (or former guitarist as I was between rounds 1 and 2) would say that as he doesn't seem well known outside of the guitar world. My first Sor round one was Segovia #5 and it has remained my favorite, haunting me though all the years in between.

Dory
Dory

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Lovemyguitar » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:16 pm

Another big Sor fan, here! I absolutely love playing his music (and hearing it, for that matter). It is full of cheer, pathos, wit, charm, heart-ache... You name the emotion, and Sor has captured it, in the most beautifully melodic way. Bravo, Mr. Sor: thanks for all the great music!

Steven Ouwerkerk

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Steven Ouwerkerk » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:41 pm

Sor has left us with a wonderful legacy one that I believe will continue for many generations of guitarist to come. His guitar method is a must to read, he was not shy to blow his on trumpet. But then again could you blame him, just look at what he achieved. He manage to elevate the states of the classical guitar as an instrument of merit, at a time when it was considered nothing more than a distraction.
:bravo:
Steven

PM

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by PM » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:29 pm

dng wrote:how about op.6 no. 11..?

I think it deserves a better name than "study"
Some do have an "STudy" name as well a popuar name.

I like "Dance of the Robins"

JBojack

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by JBojack » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:22 pm

Probably (?) Because Sor wrote for the guitar.....like Tarrega did, and now Andrew York does.

I've always thought music written for our instrument is so much better to play.

Praeludium
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Location: France, East.

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Praeludium » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:40 am

JBojack wrote:Probably (?) Because Sor wrote for the guitar.....like Tarrega did, and now Andrew York does.

I've always thought music written for our instrument is so much better to play.

Don't know about that... Sor wrote for the guitar, yes, but he was a well-rounded, fully trained musician (study of harmony and counterpoint, etc.) and IMO he definitely didn't write "guitar" like most guitarists composers did and still do... I bet that in his mind it was the musical (melodic, harmonic, contrapuntal, even orchestral) ideas first and then how he could adapt that to the guitar. Of course, since he was a great virtuoso, he managed to find excellent ways to adapt his musical ideas to the instrument. But he was definitely not a "guitar first" person.
If you read his method, you'll see that he was very crictical about how guitarists used to write for guitar at the time, and thought of himself as someone more serious and educated (and he was right). If I remember well he talks about transcribing orchestral accompaniment of voice music to the guitar, keeping the substance of it as much as possible. He also says he plays the double fugue from Haydn's The Creation on his guitar.
So he's definitely on a different league than Tarrega and even more Andrew York.. He still wrote for the guitar, but hey he was probably closer in his approach to the non-guitarist symphonic composers who wrote for us than to mr.York.
Cette dernière trahison m'a été également reprochée. Ce que je trouve à répondre, c'est:"merde aux conventions!"

- Ligeti

JBojack

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by JBojack » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:26 pm

Wow. That is surprising to me.....ive always thought that at least his numbered "studies" of which I was thinking of, were written for guitar technique development. His other compositions lose me....technically and sonically. Too complicated.

Guitarist

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Guitarist » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:51 am

Sor is still played here, I recently revived the old war horse op.9 ( Variations on a theme of Mozart) and I'm still amazed at the inventiveness of the chap.

Regards fingerings, more generally, maybe sit with alternate fingerings until you decide what your personal preference is for a piece. Some phrases can be re-fingered quite a few times until the phrase works musically and technically. There's no right or wrong way really, keep listening (and enjoying).

G

Praeludium
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Location: France, East.

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Praeludium » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:55 pm

JBojack wrote:Wow. That is surprising to me.....ive always thought that at least his numbered "studies" of which I was thinking of, were written for guitar technique development. His other compositions lose me....technically and sonically. Too complicated.
Well you're rigth : those studies are also technical work out. That being said, no Sor study is only a study of mechanism IMO, it's a part of the thing but it's never only that. For an etude which sounds orchestral, try op29 n17 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xo8-rt0vKw

One of the most technical one (op6n10, full piece at 5:20) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT-CWlvj6XA
In this one we could almost argue that he's seeing the octaves mainly as a guitar problem and that's it. Until the choral comes ! Does anyoen knows of any other study from any other author (for CG or even in general) where there's this kind of thing ? lol It's almost as if he thought "too much technique, too guitaristic in scope, let's put what could be a transcription of a vocal piece !".

What I'm trying to say is that in term of sophistication (in a good sense), Sor was, IMO, worlds apart from most guitarists-composer from any era. Now, maybe I'm biased because I like him better than the others guitarists-composers. But for me he's still on an other plane because of his elegant and ochestral writing and of his very serious, pianistic approach to the guitar.
Cette dernière trahison m'a été également reprochée. Ce que je trouve à répondre, c'est:"merde aux conventions!"

- Ligeti

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Petemayo
Posts: 34
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Location: Kansas

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Petemayo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:22 am

I found my way back. I started this thread and is the only thing I remember. Couldn't remember my username or password from 2008. I am back into guitar lately. Never left completely but as I get older (now 62) I try to exercise my memory more. So I am memorizing songs. But still Sor and loving it.

Wuuthrad
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Wuuthrad » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:48 am

Fantastic thread!

I've thought of writing one similarly; Sor Fingers, Sor Brain for example.

What strikes me as incredible is his use of 3rd's and 6th's, and the simultaneous finger gymnastics and musical beauty of his compositions, which are often without equal.

But I do wonder: who has accomplished a similar body of work with a more varied modality?

I want to study works with a similar technical proficiency,
but that have perhaps a more modern or varied harmonic and melodic structure. Forgive me for saying this, but despite the awesomeness of Sor's music, it can sound a bit dated. So much C Major: Ooh la la! 😘

Does such a thing even exist in the classical guitar repertoire?
"And is not the lute that soothes your spirit the very wood that was hollowed with knives" Khalil Gibran

PeteJ
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by PeteJ » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:08 pm

I see Sor as the Bach of his time, a master of voice-leading, melody and harmony, and would agree that he stands apart from most composers of the age. I'd also agree about the need for a more modern collection of studies of the same kind. I've dabbled but oddly seem to be missing the required talent.

Alexander Olivier
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Location: Germany

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Alexander Olivier » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:25 pm

Wuuthrad wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:48 am
I want to study works with a similar technical proficiency, but that have perhaps a more modern or varied harmonic and melodic structure.

Try Napoleon Coste's 25 Etudes Op. 38 and Giulio Regondi's 10 Etudes.

CactusWren
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Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by CactusWren » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:07 pm

I love Sor! Going through his 20 etudes leveled me up.

Wuuthrad
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:16 pm
Location: USA

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Wuuthrad » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:47 pm

Alexander Olivier wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:25 pm
Wuuthrad wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:48 am
I want to study works with a similar technical proficiency, but that have perhaps a more modern or varied harmonic and melodic structure.

Try Napoleon Coste's 25 Etudes Op. 38 and Giulio Regondi's 10 Etudes.
Fantastic- thank you! 👍
"And is not the lute that soothes your spirit the very wood that was hollowed with knives" Khalil Gibran

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