Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

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Gil_Wade
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Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by Gil_Wade » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:20 pm

jstroud wrote:A quick look at the best players today in virtuosity and tone and the vast majority have a straight wrist. Probably 90% or more.
Most of those straight wristed players will and have admitted at masterclasses that they wish they had Segovia's tone...virtuosity is a slipppery word that means different things to different people.
Gil ( o )===:::

Gilbert Wade, Certified Music Practitioner

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be silent if no bird sang except the best." Anonymous

"I get a lot of requests...but I play anyway." from a cartoon

cowmastermoo

Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by cowmastermoo » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:56 am

Both have their advantages on everyone. my wrist is a bit curved but mostly straight.
when playing scales, sextuplets and tremolo my wrist just curves naturally to the direction it needs for more resistance or less resistance depending on the situation.

AndreiKrylov

Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by AndreiKrylov » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:27 pm

Gil_Wade wrote:
jstroud wrote:A quick look at the best players today in virtuosity and tone and the vast majority have a straight wrist. Probably 90% or more.
Most of those straight wristed players will and have admitted at masterclasses that they wish they had Segovia's tone...virtuosity is a slipppery word that means different things to different people.
This theme about technique. Technique is absolutely necessary and critical part of playing music. Tone as way to make particularly colored sound is important part of it (music).
But no technique, no virtuosity, no tone is not an essence of the music (from my point of view)... Music is language and when speaker speaks (musician plays) the most important part is ability to deliver the message. Technique, virtuosity - as ability to say many words fast and clear are important, Tone - as ability to say those words with nicely rounded voice is important... But do we listen people because they say nice words fast and clear with nicely rounded voices??
We really listen someone who believe in his message! Who feel himself every little nuance of it in it's form and in it's essence... Who are passionate and absolutely convinced himself that what he is talking about is important for others to hear.

That is how I think and feel about this subject.
Thou I don't expect that everybody will agree and respect opinions of others :) .

Gil_Wade
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Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by Gil_Wade » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:35 am

I have several issues with this discussion and with COWS teachers claims. Segovia was highly influenced in his right hand technique by Llobet who was one of Tarrega's earlier students. Wikipedia says that Celedonio Romero had no guitar teacher...my teacher says otherwise. Maybe it's like Segovia where someone influenced him but was never his "teacher". Anyway, the person influencing Celedonio was also one of Tarrega's earlier students. So both lines go back to early Tarrega when he was playing with nails. Pujol was a later student of Tarregas...after Tarrega cut off his nails. Pujols and Segovias technique and approach to the guitar are night and day different. So I'm skeptical about anyone claiming to teach Segovia's style from someone who learned it from Pujol.

Segovia taught no one his right hand style. Those who might know it are those who spent years with him and learned it from watching what he did. Those who spent years as his student are probably less than 10 individuals in all. I know that at least one of that group never learned and never cared to learn Segovia's right hand style...Segovia taught music interpretation, not RH technique. Parkening, whose right hand technique is probably the one that sounds the most like Segovia (my teacher says that Parkening may actually be a bit better than Segovia was in this area), first learned his technique from the Romeros...Celedonio at first and Pepe once Celedonio got upset over everything Parkening did sounding like Segovia. When Parkening decide to learn guitar his uncle gave him some recordings of Segovia and basically told him "If you are going to play guitar you need to sound like this guy". Parkening listened and worked out on his own what he needed to do to match Segovia's tone (RH) and sound (LH). The Romeros got very frustrated with Parkening...everything he played sounded like Segoiva. All this happened before Parkening ever met Segovia. Parkening was the first American classical guitarist to sign a major studio record contract...also before he met Segovia (or shortly after the first meeting). Which is one of the reasons why Segovia told Parkening to advertise himself as "self-taught". On one level we all are...a teacher can only show you an approximation of how to hold the guitar and how to position the hand...because we are all different we each have to work out the finer details on our own. Anyone who trys to teach Segovia's technique as a particular way to hold your arm I would suggest has little clue what they are talking about. It is more important to learn the simple physics of guitar sound production than how someone holds their hand...once you figure out the direction the string must move to create the tonal quality you want then you can figure out what position your hand must be in to achieve that string direction. Watching videos may be one thing, pictures can be misleading. My teacher once asked Segovia why his hand was positioned a certain way in a famous photo...his answer "That is the way the photographer wanted me to position my hand for the photo". Also some of you attribute certain qualities to other players that I don't agree with.

My teacher has had private sessions with both Segovia and Pepe. According to him both individuals attack the strings the same way with the RH. Both can manipulate the strings in one place for different tonal timbre equally the same. The only real difference (RH) is that Pepe tended to stay on one place on the strings throughout the piece... changing timbre with shifts in the way his fingers attacked the string (changing angle of attack, amount of flesh and nail, pulling or pushing). Segovia did the same but liked more timbre variation so added a broader movement of the hand throughout the string area between the end of the fingerboard and the bridge. Left hand technique is another story all together. Also...Segovia is a classical guitarist. Pepe is a great classical guitarist but his first and greatest love is flamenco. It would hurt no one to emulate either one of them.
Gil ( o )===:::

Gilbert Wade, Certified Music Practitioner

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be silent if no bird sang except the best." Anonymous

"I get a lot of requests...but I play anyway." from a cartoon

Nikos_Greek
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Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by Nikos_Greek » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:24 pm

To contribute to the discussion about Segovia RH technique, one of his students back in the 60s, Evangelos Assimakopoulos (his name is not so well-known, but in my opinion one of the best guitarists of all time) has very similar RH technique. Seems very awkward, but is happens to have heard this guy live and teaching in seminars. His tone, sound and interpretation is unique, you can check out his youtube videos, especially Recuerdos and Capricho Arabe, Julia Florida and many others.

Flawiler63
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Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by Flawiler63 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:15 pm

re Nikos_Greek » Sunday 31 December 2017, 21:24 pm

To contribute to the discussion about Segovia RH technique, one of his students back in the 60s, Evangelos Assimakopoulos (his name is not so well-known, but in my opinion one of the best guitarists of all time) has very similar RH technique. Seems very awkward, but is happens to have heard this guy live and teaching in seminars. His tone, sound and interpretation is unique, you can check out his youtube videos, especially Recuerdos and Capricho Arabe, Julia Florida and many others.
Absolutely agree with you. His tremolo is fantastic. And let me add the preludio criollo by Riera as one of my favourite videos.I have only seen him on youtube, he is jawdroppingly good.

PeteJ
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Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by PeteJ » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:21 pm

Nice post Gilbert. I liked these two a lot...

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be silent if no bird sang except the best." Anonymous

"I get a lot of requests...but I play anyway." from a cartoon

Peter Corey
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Re: Segovia vs Romero right hand technique

Post by Peter Corey » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am

I participated in a master class conducted by Segovia circa 1973 or 1974 at the Metropolitan Museum of Art (Grace Rainey Rogers Auditorium) and learned very little.

About ten years later, I participated in a master class conducted by Angel Romero and learned a lot.

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