Why not stand with the guitar?

Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists, Aches and Pains, Injuries, etc...
Supperconductor
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by Supperconductor » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:02 pm

Hi Andrei,

Standing is definitely something I must try. I have found that a good chair certainly helps but doesn't solve my back problems. I have been practicing more and more lately (this is one obsession I'm proud of). I'm heading down to G.V. Rubio's shop for some other set up work, so I will take one of my cheaper guitars down to have buttons installed.
- Kam

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[Savarez Corum 500R Normal Basses
La Bella RN-L Rectified Nylon Light Trebles]

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:24 pm

Supperconductor wrote:Hi Andrei,

Standing is definitely something I must try. I have found that a good chair certainly helps but doesn't solve my back problems. I have been practicing more and more lately (this is one obsession I'm proud of). I'm heading down to G.V. Rubio's shop for some other set up work, so I will take one of my cheaper guitars down to have buttons installed.
Hi Supperconductor,
Have you been able to try to play standing ?
Did you try guitar with buttons?
Good luck!
I'd better speak by music...Please listen my guitar at Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, etc.

Supperconductor
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by Supperconductor » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:00 am

Not yet, been slammed at work and haven't had a chance to get down the luthier's shop. It's on my list for sure.
- Kam

2012 Hippner Hauser SP/IR
[Savarez Corum 500R Normal Basses
La Bella RN-L Rectified Nylon Light Trebles]

ronjazz
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by ronjazz » Sat May 11, 2013 3:05 pm

Luthier Music in New York City sells a strap rig that needs no buttons and is very stable once adjusted.
Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra
Lester Devoe Flamenco Blanca
Aparicio Flamenco Blanca with RMC pickup
Bartolex 7-string with RMC pickup
Giannini 7-string with Shadow pickup
Sal Pace 7-string archtop

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun May 19, 2013 12:44 pm

ronjazz wrote:Luthier Music in New York City sells a strap rig that needs no buttons and is very stable once adjusted.
I had strap like that in 1980s and did not like it... guitar was not stable enough... but maybe they improved this design?
I would love to see a small video of somebody using it
On my video here in this theme there I show how stable is my strap anybody could see that even if lift up both hands and move them - guitar do not change its position.
If you have a video with this strap or have a link to such video - please put it here!
Thanks a lot for your input Ronjazz!
I'd better speak by music...Please listen my guitar at Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, etc.

AsturiasFan

Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by AsturiasFan » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:37 am

A previous repair guy put a button right in the nook of the neck at the 12th, whose removal left a decorative hole, which you can now see at the lower right. This made the guitar extremely stable with the strap. However, it also created the situation where both the button and the strap interfered with the motion of the hand. I just had another luthier/repair guy reposition it so it wouldn't get in the way of the thumb. I showed him Krylov's photos viewtopic.php?f=71&t=35855&start=150#p764830. However, perhaps because my guitar is a cutaway he didn't place it as Krylov suggested.
button cutaway.png
To place it where krylov suggested would require the button to be rotated to the east/right face of the saddle. The current placement shown above allows the guitar to fall forward a little. I'm thinking the button at least could be repositioned again to the very edge where it meets the flat part of the neck/saddle, or even high up on flat part of the neck saddle. Whatsha think? The number of holes in the guitar doesn't matter any more because there are already too many for my terrier to count. Besides, holes drilled for legitimate purposes only increases a guitar's value. Of course, one of these legitimate purposes is to increase the value of my guitar.

P.S.

Luthiers/Repair guys really don't know where to place buttons for stability and lack of interference with the left hand. I now have had a total of three button placements, all in ridiculous positions placed by the manufacturer (worst position possible on the backside of the guitar) and luthiers. You will have to show them the exact placement.

For situations where the guitar is unstable or falls forward because the left button is misplaced, placing the strap over the rightward bout can fix the situation and create a very stable position. For example this is the fix for the misplaced button shown in the previous photo. The photo below gives the idea but the strap will really end up right on the edge with no bout visible to the right of the strap.
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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:30 pm

Thanks for your post and good luck Asturias fan!
I don't have any extra holes on my guitars, but they could be easily filled by luthier in such way that it will be almost invisible ... :) I posted some photos here before in this thread, and just in case - there is a simple video, there anybody could see where I recommend to put a button...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDT0wvpkKM
I'd better speak by music...Please listen my guitar at Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, etc.

Greg Savage

Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by Greg Savage » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:29 pm

Andrei, you seem to have put a cat amongst the pigeons. I am thinking of giving it a go as I try to sing and play some Dowland type songs and play along at the same time. Sitting perched behind a footstool doesn't seem quite right. Posture is still important and I have acoustic guitar friends who have slight dowager humps. Thanks for a bit of motivation.

Jen

Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by Jen » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:24 am

What about a Gitano? I had back problems too but now I use one of these and keep both feet flat on the floor which is much more comfortable!


.

JohnPierce

Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by JohnPierce » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:00 pm

Jen wrote:What about a Gitano? I had back problems too but now I use one of these and keep both feet flat on the floor which is much more comfortable!
A strap allows you to play with the guitar in the correct position whether seated normally (but with both feet flat on the floor), standing, seated on a high stool or low couch or the floor, etc. A strap is easier to carry around and store, and it prevents dropping the guitar. Its one drawback is that it requires drilling two small holes in your classical guitar.

Jen

Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by Jen » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:50 pm

I just got the heebeejeebees thinking of drilling a hole in a guitar!! My Gitano fits in the little compartment inside my case an has suckers so no holes necessary :D obviously can't be used standing up but can be used on a variety of different seats. And hasn't let me down yet!! (Touch wood)


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JohnPierce

Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by JohnPierce » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:34 pm

Jen wrote:I just got the heebeejeebees thinking of drilling a hole in a guitar!! My Gitano fits in the little compartment inside my case an has suckers so no holes necessary :D obviously can't be used standing up but can be used on a variety of different seats.
Most classical guitar players do. Does your footstool also fit in the case? You obviously have a guitar where the suckers both stick to the finish and do not damage it; neither of those is true for all guitars.

Jen

Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by Jen » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:50 pm

The footstool does not fit in the case as I have a hiscox flight case. My main guitar is a Redgate so the sides are super shiny and it sticks no problem and doesn't leave a mark. If I left it on for any length of time it would though. Some sort of reaction happens in the air that's trapped in the suckers so I take it on and off every day with no issues. Haven't had to replace the suckers yet either and I've been using it for 6 years! On my second guitar, the grain comes through and so it does not stick directly. However, you can get clear protective patches that cling to the guitar and they make the perfect surface for the Gitano to stick nicely to. I haven't used it a great deal on that though as it's mostly my teaching guitar so it hasn't seen as much serious use.


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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:47 pm

If playing in standing position (actually it possible to play sitting using strap too) seems absolutely unnecessary for you - then certainly there is no point in drilling holes etc.
I suggested it not because it better for guitar, nor because it will give someone any better technique etc.
There is no difference for technique in standing or sitting position...
The only difference is for someone' body... health... because sitting many hours a day is not good for health and especially for someone' back...
Myself having osteochondrosis (destroyed disks in my spine) for the last 15 years, I only could do my work for many hours ( I work as a musician full time last 35 years) only in standing moving position.
I started this theme because I thought it could help others as it helped and helps me.
I'm sorry if I'm not able to help you...
Thanks for your interest!
Jen wrote:I just got the heebeejeebees thinking of drilling a hole in a guitar!! My Gitano fits in the little compartment inside my case an has suckers so no holes necessary :D obviously can't be used standing up but can be used on a variety of different seats. And hasn't let me down yet!! (Touch wood)


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I'd better speak by music...Please listen my guitar at Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, etc.

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Why not stand with the guitar?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:20 pm

One major point in explanation of this topic (Why not stand with the guitar?)
I'm not at all promoting static standing, standing and moving a bit (possibly with the music?) almost a bit dancing or walking or another words just feeling free to move and not at all standing static like sculpture .
Static standing would not be good as well as sitting.

interesting list of studies of health issues connected with sitting positions:

- prolonged sitting has been associated with a high incidence of back complaints (Mandal, 1981),
- increased spinal muscular activity and intradiscal pressure (Grandjean and Hunting, 1977; Lindh, 1989).
- Other problems reported include discomfort in the lower extremities (Westgaard and Winkel, 1996)
- increased muscle loading of the neck and shoulder muscles when sitting with the forearms unsupported as compared to standing with the forearms unsupported (Aaras et al., 1997; Lannersten and Harms-Ringdahl, 1990).

some new press about health benefits (ergonomics too) of standing vs sitting.
all this is applicable to classical guitar ergonomics.
http://www.economist.com/news/science-a ... ing-orders
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/sitting-t ... -1.2543361
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/rise-jury- ... d=20882446
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24532996
http://ergonomics.about.com/od/office/a ... g-Desk.htm
http://readwrite.com/2013/09/26/standin ... gnGf4xD89y
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 13806.html
I'd better speak by music...Please listen my guitar at Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, etc.

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