Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Nail care, nail problems, and the use of nails in playing the classical guitar.
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guitarrista
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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:11 pm

acmost9 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:59 am
That whole nail thing with William Kanengiser was a little freaky. :)
For sure :-) I had to suppress gag reflexes when he first ripped that giant nail off the "finger" :lol:
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:19 pm

ashepps wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:36 am
"As Kanengizer explains, it does not matter how long the nails LOOK. Their apparent length(two ill-defined factors)
OK Alan, but it's like you have not really seen the video. When you say "ill-defined" in regards to how long the nail look ("their apparent length" is the same concept) - Kanengizer defines it very well just a bit earlier in the video by saying that most people look at the amount of white at the edge of a nail - if it is a lot it gives the impression of a longer nail. So this is the "how long the nail LOOK" bit. And his point is that what really matters is how the flesh and nail edge line up once you press that flesh to the string and start deriving a sound. And in both cases they line up more similarly than it would be implied based on the apparent length or amount of white.
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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by ashepps » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:44 pm

Konstantin,

I am 68, so I have been around awhile. You could be right, but I am not dwelling on the white I see, but the u.god..y length of nail compared to the whole hand if you want! Ridiculous, but it seems they can play.

If the nails are the type that hooks down you need to keep them short, like mine. Do nails hook up? If so, how is that corrected, I guess I missed it.

As I mentioned, I should stay out of this conversation as neither of us is getting anywhere, having differing opinions and that is OK!

But I do feel I was asking a question about the ability to play with excessive nails, not what other guitarists truly need for their own particular length.

Cheers,

Alan
Last edited by ashepps on Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alan Sheppard
1986 630mm Asturias JM-15 Spruce
1955 650mm Framus SL-32R
2015 650mm Yamaha SLG110N

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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by guitarrista » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:49 pm

ashepps wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:44 pm
What is the problem with the tips of the fingers when white or free space is an inch or longer?
I agree that past a certain length it should be a problem. I guess I don't really know whom you are referring to - especially if we are talking about concert guitarists. I feel that it would be helpful to provide concrete examples.
Konstantin
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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by ashepps » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:54 pm

Konstantin,

I really can’t give you names, but I am sure you have seen artists with extremely long nails and wondered how in the heck can they play with those long nails and I don’t mean 3mm? I mean excessively long nails that I am sure we have all seen, but they can pull it off!

How can they do that? That’s all I can say!

Alan

I am far from a great guitar player, but once mine
Alan Sheppard
1986 630mm Asturias JM-15 Spruce
1955 650mm Framus SL-32R
2015 650mm Yamaha SLG110N

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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by spronev » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:33 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:16 pm
Saying "nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over" or referring to specific nail length is like saying "the best size shoes for walking is 41 narrow"(*). It makes no sense because obviously the best size and width depends on the size and shape of one's foot. For nails, it depends on the shape of both the nail and the fingertip underneath, in 3 dimensions. Since frequently these vary even between fingers, never mind between individuals, in practice this means that the length and shaping of each nail on the same hand could be different. William Kanengizer has a great educational video explaining (and demonstrating) this:

[media]https://youtu.be/TJ36c3_6jks[/media]

(*) shoe-size-41.JPG
Excellent video! I have learned many of these things in a painful way over the years. Would have been easier using this as a guide.

Svilen

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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by sntn » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:16 pm

Nail length and shapes are among the most variable things in guitar playing.
This is a good point to produce various sound. :bravo:

When I was young I filed my nail long enough so the "soft part" of my finger touched the string just few milliseconds and then the nails for a sound. If the nails were too long there would be an unwanted sound of nail and string or a silent gap. I changed the strike angle of my finger to produce a "soft or warn" sound with the soft part of my finger only; otherwise, the nail would produce various sound that depended on the strike angle and how I pressed the string.

The shape of the nail depended on the hand position and the strike angle of the finger. If the nail shape were not right, again, unwanted sound or a gap and more force to have a sound; that were awkward with tremolo.

I filed my nails with the same sound for all fingers - a, m, i - and the same force to generate a sound so the sound would be smooth and continuous with tremolo and, again, with various sound.

V/R,

sntn
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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by Sierra » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:09 am

I have played both classical guitar and Harp. My classical guitar teacher was Dick Lurie -- a well known teacher/player in Cleveland. He followed Segovia's advice and we kept our nails short -- just to the top of the finger pad. The same was true for the harp; my teacher was Jocelyn Chang -- also very well respected in the Cleveland area for her playing and her teaching. Nails get in the way. They can slow you down.

There is just no substitute for good technique. The desired sound can be achieved with the finger pad alone. I kept my nails short, but not to the quick. I don't think anyone would say that Dick Lurie's, or Jocelyn Chang's playing lacked sparkle! Nor would anyone say that about Segovia.

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Re: Segovia said the nails should only come to the ends of the fingers, never over?

Post by Edavid » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:31 am

I learned the Segovia method and I subscribe to the notion the nail and flesh will provide a great range of tone. IMHO it is worth learning to use this tonal and timbrel range for musical expression.

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