Nails wearing down during practice

Nail care, nail problems, and the use of nails in playing the classical guitar.
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segobreawill
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Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by segobreawill » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:41 pm

davekear wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:13 pm
but kept hitting that 12th fret barrier. I'm getting old, too much work. Thus the cutaway. C'mon, where would Hendrix be with just 12 frets?
I love the shape of the full classical guitar. But, as you said, that damned "12th fret barrier"! Now you got me thinking about 'All Along The Watchtower' :) God, he hits some beautiful notes on that one for sure.

You're definitely really "light on the fingers" on that Bach piece, Dave. :)

ronjazz
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Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by ronjazz » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:26 pm

I use the powder for small repairs; I also (like the flamencos) use tissue paper( like Kleenex) with the superglue; it's less brittle than the powder, thus lasts a little longer. Easy to file and sand, as well.
Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra
Lester Devoe Flamenco Blanca
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Bartolex 7-string with RMC pickup
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davekear
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Location: California

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by davekear » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:29 pm

segobreawill wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:41 pm
davekear wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:13 pm
but kept hitting that 12th fret barrier. I'm getting old, too much work. Thus the cutaway. C'mon, where would Hendrix be with just 12 frets?
I love the shape of the full classical guitar. But, as you said, that damned "12th fret barrier"! Now you got me thinking about 'All Along The Watchtower' :) God, he hits some beautiful notes on that one for sure.

You're definitely really "light on the fingers" on that Bach piece, Dave. :)
Yea, got to have light fingers for that Bach allegro. And yea, Hendrix really was a genius. When you realize what the electric guitar was doing before and after him, no contest. And yea, that was an incredible version of All along the watchtower. Unequaled to this day. Like most everything else he did.
As far as the cutaway shape, I actually like it. Kind of Picassoish. I've talked to many luthiers about cutaways and sound. Most think that you can make a cutaway sound as good as traditional. We need more good guitars made with cutaways. And no more of this crossover B.S. with 48 mm nuts. We need more quality cutaway classical guitars with a 52 mm nut! Screw tradition if it hinders you.

guit-box
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Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by guit-box » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:20 am

ronjazz wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:26 pm
I use the powder for small repairs; I also (like the flamencos) use tissue paper( like Kleenex) with the superglue; it's less brittle than the powder, thus lasts a little longer. Easy to file and sand, as well.
The powder dips don't use superglue. I've done silk wrap nails with superglue and the superglue was not very long lasting. I've also tried the UV cured gel nails and they don't last very long either. My wife says the salon used a product called SNS acrylic dip nails. Their website shows the procedure, which involves several liquids. I haven't tried them yet, but her nails seem to be thinner and longer lasting than my regular acrylics, which are easier to pop off once they grow out. I think because the powder is dipped onto the nail, it's more evenly linked from one coat to the next and adheres better to the natural nail than the acrylic method where they create a bead with the brush and flatten it out.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

davekear
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Location: California

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by davekear » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:04 am

Any time you use nail glue, (cyanoacrylate,) you're going to add brittleness to the top, and to the underlying natural nail, whether you use it with powder or wrap. Which is OK if you make it thick enough so that the strength overcomes the brittleness. But this can effect tone adversely.The best nail glue we've ever found is n-Butyl cyanoacrylate, which is what Dr's and veterinarians use for sutures. It's much less brittle than regular nail glue, and does not impart brittleness to the substrate (natural nail). It can crack, but the underlying nail stays intact and flexible, so you can simply add more. Done correctly and carefully, regular fingernail glue with wrap can work pretty well. But the n-Butyl is better.

guit-box
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Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by guit-box » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:17 pm

Acrylic doesn't use cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) it uses specific activators to harden the acrylic. The point of the dip application vs the other application of the acrylics is you can dip them as many or as few times as you want in the acrylic powder and make the reinforcement very thin/even and more like a natural nail that is just simply reinforced. I much prefer to take my natural nail, which is a bit thin and fragile, and reinforce IT, rather than glue a veneer nail over my nail. I don't like the results of that and am glad I've found a solution that works for me. Others should try it and see if it works for them.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by guit-box » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:29 pm

Here's one example of the acrylic dip procedure. Guitarists like me who want them to look like natural nails can skip the glue-on tips at the beginning and the shiny top coat at the end. Otherwise the steps are:
1. file nail bed so it's roughed up.
2. apply bonding agent
3. apply gel base
4. dip in acrylic powder and tap off excess powder (use clear powder to look natural not pink)
5. apply activator (which is the element that cures that layer of acrylic)
7. repeat steps 3,4,5 until you have the thickness you want.
8. file and shape them as needed.
9 top coat (not needed)

An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

davekear
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:12 am
Location: California

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by davekear » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:55 pm

I was referring to regular nail powder that's used with nail glue. An example of that would be "ibd 5 second nail filler powder".
Acrylics, on the other hand, are a completely different story. Tone wise, and function wise are not too workable for classical guitar.
Like a bull in a china shop.

craigh
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:38 am

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by craigh » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:51 pm

I actually do the acrylic powder when I use my real nails. Yes , it is a very easy process and does a great job protecting the nails.

craigh
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:38 am

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by craigh » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:00 pm

davekear wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:13 pm
craigh wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:00 am
Great playing Dave ! Bach is my favorite for sure to play on guitar. I’d need to get my hands on that piece myself. Great one. What guitar are you playing ?
Thanks craigh. Yea, that's a great Bach piece. The guitar is a Kenny Hill La Curva. It's a bit dead, but not bad for what it is. I'm an old rock-n-roller, so I'm spoiled by upper fret access :) . That's why all of my guitars are cutaways. I just happen to feel function trumps tradition. Which limits my guitar selection quite a bit. I play a lot of pop tunes, I have over 50 hours repertoire memorized, and in a lot of those tunes my arrangements include full chords above the 12th fret. I am thinking of throwing in the towel and maybe getting a Yulong Guo Double-Top. Mostly just for recording. They have a bit of a raised fingerboard, but still not the same. I had a Michael Thames at one time.... great guitar, but kept hitting that 12th fret barrier. I'm getting old, too much work. Thus the cutaway. C'mon, where would Hendrix be with just 12 frets?
Hey , my main guitar is a Yamaha NCX2000FM. It’s been my workhorse for years and of course it too is a cutaway. I was lucky to get it years ago at a slightly discounted price ( haven’t seen it under $3000 anywhere ). I do have a Córdoba C10 as a backup and I just sold a Camps flamenco guitar mainly because it didn’t work for me ( plus I hate guitars when the neck is heavier than the body of the guitar ... also why I sold my Gibson SG years ago. )
As with any cutaway/hybrid guitar , it doesn’t project like a concert guitar , but in all honesty , other than a few minor tweaks I would honestly have a luthier build me another cutaway to the specs of the Yamaha. I’ve definitely come to get my sound from playing that guitar. It’s beat up , but I haven’t found anything to replace it either.

davekear
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Location: California

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by davekear » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:10 pm

I've always admired the NCX2000, but never played one. I'd like to though. One day I'll have to try one.

craigh
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:38 am

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by craigh » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:33 pm

davekear wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:10 pm
I've always admired the NCX2000, but never played one. I'd like to though. One day I'll have to try one.
I think they’ve been discontinued for awhile now. If you can get your hands on one they’re great. The electronics on it are better than any others I’ve tried. Then again I haven’t tried out any new guitars in a few years. I was in a guitar shop in Barcelona a few years ago and tried out every cutaway they had. Of course they thought I was insane since they mainly sold flamenco guitars. In all honesty out of the 10 or 12 cutaways I tried , nonecrealkt matched the Yamaha. But I did find myself traveling home with a nice traditional flamenco guitar ... I think the next step would be a custom built cutaway. I don’t need the extra access to frets , but I do like the option either way.

davekear
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Location: California

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by davekear » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:56 pm

Yea, I would really like to try one of those NCX2000's. I recently got a Takamine TC132SC. I actually really like it, but it has some dead spots. Still has great basses and mostly pretty good sustain. But i'm still looking for something better. Matter of $$$$.
Here's a sample of the TC132SSC. This was a demo showing the diversity and uniformity of tone of our nails, played on the TC132SC.
Recorded straight to a cheap video camera.

guit-box
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:57 am

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by guit-box » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:32 pm

To each his own, I guess, regarding the acrylics. I get a great tone and volume and durability with them. Nothing compares to the durability. I did look at various material handling lists for the acrylic dip gel base and it does have CA listed as part of the ingredients. So Dave is correct about that, but my experience having used straight CA glue with various things like silk wraps (like James Taylor does on a youtube video) or tea bags, etc. is that it's nasty stuff that can really make your eyes water. The older kind of acrylic where you dip a brush in the liquid and grab a bead of powder and squish it down is great and very durable but the smell is nasty while it's being done. The smell is gone once it cures. The dip acrylic, even though it uses some CA glue too as part of its base, is advertised as scentless and imo it's pretty good. So, for acrylics, it seems like the best choice because it doesn't smell, and it can go on thinner and more evenly and DIY is possible.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

davekear
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:12 am
Location: California

Re: Nails wearing down during practice

Post by davekear » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:54 pm

Maybe the acrylic dip is OK, I don't have any experience with that. I do have with "regular" acrylic nails....lots of problems. Especially using forms to create the nail. It's impossible to get a decent tone, or feel with those. And they beat up your natural nail pretty good.
If you want to avoid the fumes of regular fingernail glue, (cyanoacrylate) you can use n-Butyl cyanoacrylate. It has no smell, is less brittle, and does not impart brittleness to the substrate, (underlying natural nail). You can use that stuff with or without wrap. And if you're really slow at it, it may take about 1 minute to apply. Very effective, and so easy to use.

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