Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Audio and video recordings of the works of Fernando Sor.
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Marek Cupak
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Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by Marek Cupak » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:20 pm


Played on an authentic early romantic period guitar made by Johann Georg Stauffer (1778 - 1853) in Vienna.

I do not own this instrument, but am glad I had the chance to have it borrowed for some time. Primarily, it was meant to be measured and examined by my colleague luthier http://www.okenicaguitars.com/ who builds new instruments in style of Lacote, Stauffer and other masters of 19th century, to gain some inspiration from. But I couldn't return it without doing some recordings for you :-)

Why do I play: http://marekcupak.com

Performed Oct. 2017

:bye:
2014 Martin Okenica cedar, modern (H. Hauser I inspired)
2012 Martin Okenica spruce, early romantic (F. R. Lacôte inspired)

powderedtoastman
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by powderedtoastman » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:16 pm

Thank you for posting! That's a beautiful guitar and it sounds excellent.
I'm very envious that you got to spend some time with that guitar. I hope I can some day be lucky enough to get to play for even just a few moments on a Stauffer or Lacote in good condition, but I don't know if it's so likely.

How do you feel your Lacote-style repro guitar compares to the real thing?

richtm
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by richtm » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:33 pm

Hi Marek,
very nice recording. I like the sound of the guitar and your playing... :bravo:
Does your luthier also restore old instruments?

Regards from Hamburg :bye:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ernest Köröskenyi 1977 Cedar top; Pauline Bernabe Especial 2007 Spruce top, 2012 Cedar top; Andreas Kirmse 2017 Cedar Double-top

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Marek Cupak
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by Marek Cupak » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:24 am

richtm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:33 pm
Does your luthier also restore old instruments?
Yes, occasionally, it is mentioned on his page - check it and you'll find some pics.
2014 Martin Okenica cedar, modern (H. Hauser I inspired)
2012 Martin Okenica spruce, early romantic (F. R. Lacôte inspired)

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Marek Cupak
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by Marek Cupak » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:44 am

powderedtoastman wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:16 pm
How do you feel your Lacote-style repro guitar compares to the real thing?
Regarding the ergonomics, there are three things to consider:
- scale length
- string action
- string spacing (nut / bridge)

I had the chance to try several such Lacote-style repro's like the one I play usually. Made by the same person. I guess they can be as different in ergonomics as authentic guitars can, given the level to which above mentioned parameters can be varied to personal request.

Stauffer himself made instruments with relatively highly elevated fingerboard, which supports string action adjustments (and even neck replacement, which could change the scale length and string spacing), and also instruments with fingerboard fixed into and leveled with the top (like this one in the video), which do not offer any possibility of adjusting string action. On this particular guitar, scale length and string action were fixed. And the string spacing pretty much too, as it would require me to replace the nut if I'd like to change the spacing.

What I'm trying to say is that a repro-guitar can be adjusted to mimic any original instrument. But this particular Stauffer had:
- scale length only about 1 cm longer, I think, so practically a non-issue.
- string action quite low. I had to watch out for buzzes, and as you can hear in the recording, I've only partially managed to avoid them.
- a little bit narrower string spacing. But I got used to it quickly.
2014 Martin Okenica cedar, modern (H. Hauser I inspired)
2012 Martin Okenica spruce, early romantic (F. R. Lacôte inspired)

powderedtoastman
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by powderedtoastman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:38 am

Marek Cupak wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:44 am
powderedtoastman wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:16 pm
How do you feel your Lacote-style repro guitar compares to the real thing?
Regarding the ergonomics, there are three things to consider:
- scale length
- string action
- string spacing (nut / bridge)

I had the chance to try several such Lacote-style repro's like the one I play usually. Made by the same person. I guess they can be as different in ergonomics as authentic guitars can, given the level to which above mentioned parameters can be varied to personal request.

Stauffer himself made instruments with relatively highly elevated fingerboard, which supports string action adjustments (and even neck replacement, which could change the scale length and string spacing), and also instruments with fingerboard fixed into and leveled with the top (like this one in the video), which do not offer any possibility of adjusting string action. On this particular guitar, scale length and string action were fixed. And the string spacing pretty much too, as it would require me to replace the nut if I'd like to change the spacing.

What I'm trying to say is that a repro-guitar can be adjusted to mimic any original instrument. But this particular Stauffer had:
- scale length only about 1 cm longer, I think, so practically a non-issue.
- string action quite low. I had to watch out for buzzes, and as you can hear in the recording, I've only partially managed to avoid them.
- a little bit narrower string spacing. But I got used to it quickly.
Thanks for the detailed response!
I have a Lacote copy and now an original instrument by the Roudhloff brothers, and with the same set of strings I find the Roudhloff to be a bit easier in playability though they are both nice overall. Both have action a little on the higher side, but the Roudhloff has a shorter scale length (about 615 vs. I believe 630).
The other big differences are the bracing patterns and that the Roudhloff has what looks like spruce on the inside of the back, while the Lacote copy is bookmatched solid maple. The Lacote copy is a bit brighter on the high end and I wonder if the spruce inside the back might help to take that edge off... perhaps how much the wood has aged does contribute as well though?

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Marek Cupak
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by Marek Cupak » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:01 am

powderedtoastman wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:38 am
The other big differences are the bracing patterns and that the Roudhloff has what looks like spruce on the inside of the back, while the Lacote copy is bookmatched solid maple. The Lacote copy is a bit brighter on the high end and I wonder if the spruce inside the back might help to take that edge off... perhaps how much the wood has aged does contribute as well though?
How much does the bracing pattern differ? Proportionally only, or it isn't ladder-braced one at all?
Regarding sides and back - I always thought they don't significantly contribute to the overall output of a guitar, but I may be wrong all the time.
And the age of wood - no clue at all. This Stauffer in the video is my very first instrument of such an age I could play, so I can't compare.
2014 Martin Okenica cedar, modern (H. Hauser I inspired)
2012 Martin Okenica spruce, early romantic (F. R. Lacôte inspired)

powderedtoastman
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:15 am
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by powderedtoastman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:29 pm

Marek Cupak wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:01 am
powderedtoastman wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:38 am
The other big differences are the bracing patterns and that the Roudhloff has what looks like spruce on the inside of the back, while the Lacote copy is bookmatched solid maple. The Lacote copy is a bit brighter on the high end and I wonder if the spruce inside the back might help to take that edge off... perhaps how much the wood has aged does contribute as well though?
How much does the bracing pattern differ? Proportionally only, or it isn't ladder-braced one at all?
Regarding sides and back - I always thought they don't significantly contribute to the overall output of a guitar, but I may be wrong all the time.
And the age of wood - no clue at all. This Stauffer in the video is my very first instrument of such an age I could play, so I can't compare.
I believe the Roudhloff instrument actually has an X-brace, based on limited info around the net. My best look inside has been through the hole where the strap button is kind of press fitted and not glued in (so it comes out kind of easily). It kind of looks like there are very thin strips in an X pattern, in addition to the tall transverse brace near the sound hole but I can't get a great look at it... but that's getting too far off topic for this thread probably.

I noticed you also recorded the Bach cello prelude with this Stauffer, it sounds excellent!

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Marek Cupak
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by Marek Cupak » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:14 pm

powderedtoastman wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:29 pm
I believe the Roudhloff instrument actually has an X-brace, based on limited info around the net. My best look inside has been through the hole where the strap button is kind of press fitted and not glued in (so it comes out kind of easily). It kind of looks like there are very thin strips in an X pattern, in addition to the tall transverse brace near the sound hole but I can't get a great look at it... but that's getting too far off topic for this thread probably.

I noticed you also recorded the Bach cello prelude with this Stauffer, it sounds excellent!
There are three more ways how you could examine bracing pattern in your guitar, without taking it apart:
- use mirror :-) small enough to pass through the sound-hole
- in a dark room, try a powerful light-bulb, lit inside the guitar, just under bridge - something like this http://www.schrammguitars.com/79gilbert_001.jpg or better image https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theunof ... G_0135.jpg
- if you'd be interested in your brace's profiles, you can try imprinting it into a block of plasticine covered with something very soft and water-proof (so you wouldn't make insides of your guitar dirty / greasy)

Yes, I managed to do 3 recordings with that guitar, before I've returned it.
2014 Martin Okenica cedar, modern (H. Hauser I inspired)
2012 Martin Okenica spruce, early romantic (F. R. Lacôte inspired)

CarlitosXhan
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by CarlitosXhan » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:26 pm

Thanks for sharing your beautiful rendition!. (and such a lovely instrument!)

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Luuttuaja
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by Luuttuaja » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:11 am

Thanks for sharing this, Marek! It's a very beautiful guitar. Lovely sound too.

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FirminArchambault
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by FirminArchambault » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:59 pm

Thank you for sharing this wonderful interpretation.
Are you using nails in your recording?

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Marek Cupak
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by Marek Cupak » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:54 pm

FirminArchambault wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:59 pm
Are you using nails in your recording?
Hi Firmin. Yes, I do.
2014 Martin Okenica cedar, modern (H. Hauser I inspired)
2012 Martin Okenica spruce, early romantic (F. R. Lacôte inspired)

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FirminArchambault
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by FirminArchambault » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:17 am

Thank you for answering. I was doubting as your sound was soft and precise at the same time, which made me doubt whether you were playing with your nails or your finger tips. That is a very soft touch you can obtain with nails, very nice!

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spanishguitarmusic
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Re: Sor, Fernando - op.35/24 Allegro moderato - Video (auth. Stauffer guitar)

Post by spanishguitarmusic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:35 am

Beautiful guitar and it sounds really good too! Wonderful playing as well! Thank you for sharing.

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