Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
larryguitar
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:05 pm

I heard from the luthier who built the Tripodium and he said it would require drilling holes in the guitar so that option is out.

I will see where I get with the guy who builds the Viking stands.

MessyTendon
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by MessyTendon » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:29 pm

If the bracing inside the guitar doesn't complicate the placement maybe the SageWorks/barnett support would work okay. I also think gasp...maybe consider adding a strap button. The rockers of today are playing 12 -15 pound bricks of alder or ash bodied guitars.

A strap just might work, but even then it's a bit of fuss.

larryguitar
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:56 pm

MessyTendon wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:29 pm
If the bracing inside the guitar doesn't complicate the placement maybe the SageWorks/barnett support would work okay. I also think gasp...maybe consider adding a strap button. The rockers of today are playing 12 -15 pound bricks of alder or ash bodied guitars.

A strap just might work, but even then it's a bit of fuss.
I owned the SageWorks/Barnett support at one point and I'm pretty confident in saying that the weight of this guitar will collapse the legs if pushed in the wrong direction. Anyway, there is a massive infrastructure inside the body of the guitar, I don't think it is possible to get a hand to the sides.

Besides, I want to get all of the weight off of my legs, so that's not going to work. I think the strap is out too, I just don't want that much weight hanging anywhere on my body for any length of time, and, well, even if it sort of worked, the guitar would than have all of the weight on one of my legs, if it were like the theorbo player.

What do the rockers of today gain by playing 12-15 pound solid body guitars? I hope they all have health insurance. Do they think their tone is somehow improved? I don't get it. I think cigar box guitars with Marshall stacks is good enough. ;-)

This is all you need for an electric:


larryguitar
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:56 am

So, tonight, I experimented a little with my playing position. I sat on my bed and that allowed me to shift the guitar to my right leg and have it supported by the bed. My arm winds up too high this way, but I think this position could work if I had a tripod stand to hold the guitar a little bit lower on the right, and pointed the neck up and the body leaned back.

I think I could get used to being shifted towards the headstock because there aren't many frets over the body on this guitar.

It's all one big experiment! Hopefully, I'll figure out a comfortable playing position.

soltirefa
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by soltirefa » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:10 am

This may not be a solution that would work for your big guitar, but for what it's worth ... check out this strap used for a lute. Note how the player tucks the end of the strap under her butt and sits on it, letting the strap do all the work.


larryguitar
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:25 am

soltirefa wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:10 am
This may not be a solution that would work for your big guitar, but for what it's worth ... check out this strap used for a lute. Note how the player tucks the end of the strap under her butt and sits on it, letting the strap do all the work.

That is very interesting, indeed, and I would try it but I notice that you need a button on the end of the guitar as one of two fixed points and I don’t have a button there. I’m trying to avoid having any holes drilled in the guitar.

SteveL123
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:46 am

Have you tried supporting the guitar on a table with phone books + non slip cloth to get a comfortable height and angle playing standing up? Once you find that position, mark it relative to your torso and eye level etc. and that is also the level you want playing while sitting.

A support for sitting, I don't think a tripod stand will work since the wide tripod legs will get in your way. You need something like a cello pole support. I envision 2 Murata supports (just the clamps, if they fit the body depth of your guitar), one on the upper bout and one on the lower bout, the two clamps connected by a plate (piece of rosewood would look nice but any wood would do). Find the center balance point of the plate and that is where the pole has to go. Voila! DIY monster guitar support!

Image

larryguitar
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:05 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:46 am
Have you tried supporting the guitar on a table with phone books + non slip cloth to get a comfortable height and angle playing standing up? Once you find that position, mark it relative to your torso and eye level etc. and that is also the level you want playing while sitting.

A support for sitting, I don't think a tripod stand will work since the wide tripod legs will get in your way. You need something like a cello pole support. I envision 2 Murata supports (just the clamps, if they fit the body depth of your guitar), one on the upper bout and one on the lower bout, the two clamps connected by a plate (piece of rosewood would look nice but any wood would do). Find the center balance point of the plate and that is where the pole has to go. Voila! DIY monster guitar support!

Image
I don't have a low enough table that will work but I can guess that dropping the guitar 4-7 inches below the height of my bed will work pretty well, I think. The bed is 24" high.

The Murata clamps won't work, they only open to 4 1/4 inches and the contra guitar is almost 6 inches deep. Plus, I wouldn't trust those shallow clamps on the edge of the contra guitar.

The trouble with your solution is that it still forces me to sit with my legs spread wide open to fit the guitar body. I don't want to play that way, it puts far too much stress on my hip joints. I want to shift the guitar onto my right leg or just to the outside of my right leg. Also, I don't want it balanced so it is level, I need the neck pointed up, and the body tilted back.

I will have to see how the tripod legs work when sitting down, the legs could be a problem. I'm going to ask the builder of the Viking stands if he can put the head on the other side of the tripod, just like on the Tripodium. I don't see why not, but perhaps there is a reason it will not work that way.

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adamjohnson
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by adamjohnson » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:53 am

One of the more common large bodied guitars is the Guitarrón mexicano, perhaps researching those may provide some clues? I have always seen them played with a strap, but it stands to reason some folk have gone against tradition.

The sitar technique of supporting the instrument is quite comfortable once your knees adapt, takes the weight almost completely off of you and just uses simple leverage. But you need to play seated on the floor and barefoot, which not everyone is alright with. It works quite well with many guitar shaped instruments and really promotes good posture and limbers you up a fair amount.It has been 20 years since I have played a sitar, but I still play in that position from time to time, once you get used to it your body just settles in with out effort.

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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:00 am

adamjohnson wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:53 am
One of the more common large bodied guitars is the Guitarrón mexicano, perhaps researching those may provide some clues? I have always seen them played with a strap, but it stands to reason some folk have gone against tradition.

The sitar technique of supporting the instrument is quite comfortable once your knees adapt, takes the weight almost completely off of you and just uses simple leverage. But you need to play seated on the floor and barefoot, which not everyone is alright with. It works quite well with many guitar shaped instruments and really promotes good posture and limbers you up a fair amount.It has been 20 years since I have played a sitar, but I still play in that position from time to time, once you get used to it your body just settles in with out effort.

These are excellent ideas but I’m afraid that I’ll run into problems with cultural norms. I don’t want to be the only one in the ensemble seated on the floor. I won’t be able to make eye contact with the other members. Also, sitar bodies are pretty small, it seems to me, while the contra body is large and forces my arm high in the air when I play on my bed, which is kind of like sitting on a raised floor. Finally, I’m not sure I have the hip flexibility to sit on the floor like sitar players do.

Yes, I always see Guitarrón players using straps. How much do those things weigh? Still, I don’t want to be the only one in the ensemble who is standing, haha! Sigh, there must be some way to support this monster when I’m playing in a seated position.

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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:48 am

So, the question I posed to the luthier who built the Tripodium is, why does the guitar have to be bolted to the stand? Why do holes have to be drilled in the guitar?

I only want the stand for playing, not for displaying the guitar. For the luthiers on here, do you think that design is strong enough to hold a 5.5kg/12lb guitar? I would want the body tilted back to me so that I could see the frets. I would also like the head joint to be moveable so I could move the guitar some when playing it.

I will always be holding the guitar and can lock the head during rest periods. I would never let go of the guitar.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by Michael.N. » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:15 am

Try a suction cup and the lute/basoon strap idea. If it doesn't work you haven't lost much. If it does work you'd be better off drilling that little hole for an end pin. Ultimately it's the best solution - you won't have to carry a tripodium or a bed around.
Historicalguitars.

larryguitar
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:32 am

Michael.N. wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:15 am
Try a suction cup and the lute/basoon strap idea. If it doesn't work you haven't lost much. If it does work you'd be better off drilling that little hole for an end pin. Ultimately it's the best solution - you won't have to carry a tripodium or a bed around.
Haha, I was looking forward to going to gigs with a couple of mattresses. Actually, I think I can achieve the same result by playing on a wide piano bench!

As for the Tripodium, true, I’m not exactly keen on carrying extra weight when the guitar and case already weigh twenty three pounds.

Sorry for my naïveté, but do they make suction cup end pins? Will it stay on? I’ve been having good luck with the GuitarLift and the static cling FiniSHIELDs. The support stays on a long time. Where can I buy the end pin and the lute/bassoon strap?

Ah, I found this thread on using a strap:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=61028

and this site has paintings that show how straps were used on lutes:

http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/straps.htm

There is some interesting discussion of the use of a lap strap at the bottom of this page: http://www.guitarandluteissues.com/meth ... olding.htm

that says that the strap should be passed over the lap and around the left leg to raise the neck of the guitar higher.

I was looking at the Sarabande from BWV 995 and seeing one huge stretch that would have to be re-fingered when it hit me that maybe I could work with an assistant who could play that note while I held another one. I think that guitar is big enough to support four hand arrangements! :-)

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Michael.N.
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by Michael.N. » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:00 am

You can buy suctions cups with an integral hook. I'm not suggesting this as a long term idea but it should be sufficient to try it out. Obviously make sure the finish on the guitar is suitable for suction cups.
Historicalguitars.

larryguitar
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Re: Guitar support for large guitar - Tripodium or other device

Post by larryguitar » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:15 am

Michael.N. wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:00 am
You can buy suctions cups with an integral hook. I'm not suggesting this as a long term idea but it should be sufficient to try it out. Obviously make sure the finish on the guitar is suitable for suction cups.
Thanks, yes, it is worth an experiment. I found some heavy duty suction cups that have a wing nut on them, perhaps those would be really strong. I could use two in a row.

Don’t I need two straps? One for the lower bout around my legs, the one I sit on, and one from the headstock around my back to another suction cup on the lower bout?

I need to find someone who makes really long guitar straps. Any thoughts?

Update: Ok, I ordered four heavy duty suction cups and two extra long guitar straps by Dunlop. I’ll give it a go.

To be honest, I don’t care much about the finish on the lower bout if this works to make the guitar more comfortable to play. Manuel Velazquez is quoted as saying that he did not care about finish, that any guitar he gave to a player would be all marked up in a month. He said he cared about sound.

I need to find a way to comfortably play this monster, that is my first concern. I can’t keep the guitar if it just languishes in its case.

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