For the Doubters

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Altophile

For the Doubters

Post by Altophile » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:40 am

For those who can't bring themselves to believe the top really is the most important, here's a guitar with back and sides made of paper:


Dmitrypey
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by Dmitrypey » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:09 am

Amazing!
Thank you for posting

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Arash Ahmadi
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by Arash Ahmadi » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:27 am

Interesting!
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simonm
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by simonm » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:45 am

The current edition of Orfeo (https://issuu.com/orfeomagazine/docs/orfeo_12_fr french - the english edition should be along shortly - thanks to Valere for the link) also mentions this quitar and the maker, Walter Verreydt talks a bit about it (p34 onwards).

A Brazilian guy did a paper guitar relatively recently too - it may have been mentioned here sometime in the last 2 years.

What is interesting in this case is that Verreydt is a superbly accomplished professional builder and as a teacher was involved in the Leonardo project parts I and II. (also in this Orfeo).

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joachim33
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by joachim33 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:45 am

I find this way more interesting:



How many guitars can you detect?

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CarbonElitist
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by CarbonElitist » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:41 am

Very neat! But now I want to see a guitar without a back and sides. Then I'll truly be a believer. :mrgreen:

In all seriousness though, that has an amazing sound.
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chuckinphoenix
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by chuckinphoenix » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:44 pm

Might sound even better if he had used a Brazilian newspaper
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Big bird
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by Big bird » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:01 pm

chuckinphoenix wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:44 pm
Might sound even better if he had used a Brazilian newspaper
:lol:

Everything I've read says East Indian Newspaper has more resonance and more of a Spanish sound.

Cool video, thanks for posting.
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2lost2find
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by 2lost2find » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:07 pm

No surprises there. The back of the guitar is connected to the resonating top through very stiff sides; how much string energy is reasonably going to transfer? The vast, vast majority of the sound of an acoustic guitar is going to be a combination of the soundboard and interior air volume.

By the same token, it's been proven that in blind tests the same piezo pickup mounted to a very expensive guitar and then to something made of completely non-resonant material is completely indistinguishable in tone... so taking your $2000 Marton or Taylor to a rock gig is actually pretty dumb. It's also been scientifically proven that wood makes zero difference to the tone of a solidbody electric guitar; it's 100% electronics, strings, and the hardware the strings are directly attached to.

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Re: For the Doubters

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:26 pm

2lost2find wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:07 pm
No surprises there. The back of the guitar is connected to the resonating top through very stiff sides; how much string energy is reasonably going to transfer? The vast, vast majority of the sound of an acoustic guitar is going to be a combination of the soundboard and interior air volume.

By the same token, it's been proven that in blind tests the same piezo pickup mounted to a very expensive guitar and then to something made of completely non-resonant material is completely indistinguishable in tone... so taking your $2000 Marton or Taylor to a rock gig is actually pretty dumb. It's also been scientifically proven that wood makes zero difference to the tone of a solidbody electric guitar; it's 100% electronics, strings, and the hardware the strings are directly attached to.
Interesting points. I know very little about solid body electrics, but what your saying in your second paragraph certainly makes sense to me. In fact, I was under the impression that electronic components pretty much drove the cost (outside of brand and/or collectability) of those instruments in the first place.

When I saw the "Newspaper Guitar" video the first thing I thought was: well, paper is wood after all. I don't know what resins, or perhaps just a poly-based finish, etc., was used to stiffen it up, but I'm betting its pretty similar to solid wood, from a structural standpoint.
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by simonm » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:03 pm

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:26 pm
...
When I saw the "Newspaper Guitar" video the first thing I thought was: well, paper is wood after all. I don't know what resins, or perhaps just a poly-based finish, etc., was used to stiffen it up, but I'm betting its pretty similar to solid wood, from a structural standpoint.
Some details in Orfeo mentioned above.

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David Norton
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by David Norton » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:17 pm

Good heavens, would it kill her to actually play what was written? Ugh.

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2lost2find
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by 2lost2find » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:36 pm

David Norton wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:17 pm
Good heavens, would it kill her to actually play what was written? Ugh.

ALTOPHILE: Congrats on joining the 1000 Post Club.
What did she change?

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CarbonElitist
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by CarbonElitist » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:59 pm

David Norton wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:17 pm
Good heavens, would it kill her to actually play what was written? Ugh.

ALTOPHILE: Congrats on joining the 1000 Post Club.
Haha, I see your comment on the video.
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Lawler
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Re: For the Doubters

Post by Lawler » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:59 pm

David Norton wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:17 pm
Good heavens, would it kill her to actually play what was written? Ugh.
I wish she hadn't skipped the C section. I liked her varied repetitions of the A section but yes, certainly taking a lot of freedom with the score. Reminded me a little of what Yamandu Costa does with pieces like this one.

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