String Beads/Tie Block systems

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
GMR
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by GMR » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:10 pm

These beads I used seem pretty unobtrusive. But that would be a fair bit of an instantaneous energy release if a string gave way.... hopefully the bridge friction would dissipate things enough for the bead and string to just drop to the deck with little fuss.
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Garland

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robin loops
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by robin loops » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:40 pm

I've had them break and they just fling outwards away from the guitar. Much better than a string breaking right at the tie off where it flips around and dents the finish just behind the bridge (a common injury on flamenco guitars). However I suppose it could happen different and cause quite a scratch. Smooth edges probably would help avoid the possibility of that.

As far as the break angle difference. It was significant enough to compensate for an overly shallow break angle due to having to shave down the bridge (actually notched mine rather than shaving, as it removedls less material and doesn't compromise the saddle slot strength). And perhaps enough that I wouldn't recommend them on a guitar with an already steep break angle as it could become too steep (if that is possible)
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
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robin loops
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by robin loops » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:44 pm

Ball ends differ from beads in that beads have 3 holes (as oposed to one) and the string holds itself in place (as poised to a knot). With ball ends a knot in the string keeps it from passing through a single hope in the ball. I could never get these to work well because the knots tend to break and can slip also bit.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
-James-

Jabberwocky
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by Jabberwocky » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:18 am

I tried wooden beads from the local embroidery shop; they didn't work on my guitar. The D string snapped. I left the beads on to see what would happen. The remaining beads lodged themselves into the holes of the tie-block. I untied the strings at the rollers and the beads remained stuck in the holes. I had trouble making knots that were large enough to prevent slippage. Too much work. BUT the improved break angle did help the sound on my cheap Yamaha. When the D string snapped, the bead made an alarming clatter and shot off the tie-block. Thankfully, it was a cheap Yamaha C260S. I had trouble with the slippery nylon strings especially with the skinny treble e4 string. The knot I made disappeared into the hole of the bead and lodged itself inside. I worried about the knot breaking free of the bead; it was not worth the worry. On an expensive guitar that would have been nerve-wracking.

So, I bought the Diamond Rosette String Ties. Easy to use and don't cost too much. No string broke. No string slipped. No ugly large knots to make. And they sat unobstrusively behind tie-block. They weighed nothing compared to the wooden beads which weighed a little more than nothing. As before, the improved break angle improved the tone.

On a 12-hole tie-block, the String Ties/Beads are redundant and due to the way the strings are tied in a 12-hole tie-block the Strings Ties will just fall off (unless you choose to use only 6 of the 12 holes). There is no tension to hold them on.

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robin loops
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by robin loops » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:29 pm

The only real advantage to using them on a 12 hole bridge (utilizing only 6 of the 12 holes) is that the strings don't wrap around the bridge so there is no chance of string rash on the bridge. But it also looks tidier.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
-James-

Shrevis
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by Shrevis » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:20 am

I've had a bead break before and the string snapping caused a nasty gouge in the soundboard :(

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ameriken
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by ameriken » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:22 pm

I just had a treble E (Aquila Cristallo) break 3 times at the bead (Rosette Diamond). Not a slip but a break. Tied the same way I've tied previous strings and I've had the Cristallo's on before. Anyone else had this happen? Sharp edge on the bead itself?

Trying to figure it out before I go with another treble, or even using the bead itself.
Amalio Burguet 1A Spruce
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ameriken
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by ameriken » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:48 pm

Make that 4 times. Had just enough treble left to try it again, and snap!
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Thomas
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by Thomas » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:01 pm

Today I received the beads , I am not sure why but for the first time after years of using a guitar I broke my first string
Is there any possibility that these beads can damage the bridge itself ? Don't they add pressure on the bridge?

UKsteve
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by UKsteve » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:44 pm

Thomas wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:01 pm
Today I received the beads , I am not sure why but for the first time after years of using a guitar I broke my first string
Is there any possibility that these beads can damage the bridge itself ? Don't they add pressure on the bridge?
First question is where did the string break? - I'm betting it was somewhere at the bead rather than the bridge saddle?
I had a set of beads where one of them had a rather sharp perimeter edge; it cut through the nylon when tuning upto pitch a couple of times before I realised the bead was the problem. Changed it and had no further issues.

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Thomas
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by Thomas » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:53 pm

I was reading this

https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... 5&start=15

Read the last post

Well I think I am going to get rid of these beads asap

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ameriken
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by ameriken » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:38 pm

Thanks for the above posts. I did go with another treble and used the extra bead that came with the set so far with success. We'll see after a couple of days. When I do the next set I'll probably get rid of the beads as well.
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Beowulf
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by Beowulf » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:55 pm

I have used the Diamond String Ties for years now without any strings breaking. I have had one e string slip free (an no damage whatsoever) and subsequently have added a knot (or a "melt blob" using a lighter) at the string end at the back of the string tie. If you study the design of the Diamond String Ties, it appears that the most likely potential "break point" would be at the back where the string passes underneath itself and is compressed by the tension. The edges around the holes should not be a problem unless they have not been properly filleted.

Mind you, the Augustine Regal treble e is the highest tension e that I have ever used: 18.81lbs (8.53kgs)...that has something to do with the slip... :shock:
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es335
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by es335 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:06 am

Beowulf wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:55 pm
... If you study the design of the Diamond String Ties, it appears that the most likely potential "break point" would be at the back where the string passes underneath itself and is compressed by the tension. The edges around the holes should not be a problem unless they have not been properly filleted. ...
Fully second this. On one of my Diamond String Ties the groove where the string passes underneath seems to be a tad to deep to securely fix this string’s end by comression. The result was an e string which kept going flat two semi tones overnight for well two weeks. :?

When removing this string tie it appeared that the insufficient compression force caused a flat deformation of the bottom string section under the crossing. Nevertheless the first issue ever which occured with the Diamond String Ties and the e string now always receives a securing knot. :wink:

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