Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

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Jorge Oliveira
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Location: Cascais, Portugal

Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:32 am

This is a Topic with the same objective as the Topic Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we? I launched two years ago "encouraged by fellow Forum member Yisrael Van Handel to learn, in a systematic way, all 25 pieces of Sor’s Opus 60, in preparation for some of his other, more demanding, works" and inviting other Forum Members to come along in this quest. Indeed, some of us did so and, in the process, we all learned a lot and surely improved our play. It is now time to move on to "other, more demanding, work". After some considerations that can be read in posts of the Sor Opus 60 Project, there was a consensus that one should stay with Fernando Sor and learn now, together still, the 24 Studies of his Opus 35.

Indeed, as suggested by Machael Macmeeken in the Chanterelle Edition of Sor's Complete Studies, page 193, Sor's Studies, they can be graded as follows:

Grading of Sor's Studies.png

From his accessment of the degree of difficulty of each individual piece of all of Sor's Studies, one could extract the grading of the Opus 60 pieces,

Opus 60 grading.png

as well as those of the Opus 35:

Opus 35 grading.png

By the number of Elementary, Novice and Intermediate pieces in each Opus, one can see, then, that Opus 35 seems to be a bit more challenging than Opus 60.

Therefore, as before, I'm inviting whomever is learning, or already plays some of the Opus 35 pieces, to share his progress and achievements and to comment on any particular aspect of a given piece she/he is studying or is already familiar with (difficulty, beauty, musical analysis, etc.).

I start the Project, then, by posting the piece #1. The #1 is an Elementary piece. The learning period, which refers to the dates I started with the piece and the day I considered it to be fully memorized and “in my fingers”, was: 05Nov18 - 13Nov16. The piece has no repeats and the assigned Tempo is Andante. I looked at the Wikipedia and, today, it implied to play it at 1/4 = 76–108 bpm, but even the upper limit, 108 bpm, seemed to me to be too slow, so I settled on 1/4 = 125 bpm. Comments are welcome.

The record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. The guitar used was my Kuniharu Nobe #8 (1972), fitted with Knobloch Actives Carbon CX, High Tension strings. The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma and .mp3 files below. Apart from cutting and splicing the audio wave file to eliminate some not so well succeeded sections, no special effects were added during the recording and editing sessions.

Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #1 (V1).wma
Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #1 (V1).mp3

So, the table of posted (TPR) records is the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 01Jan19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

This is what I have for the moment, but I could not end this post without wishing you all a Happy 2019... :-D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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David Norton
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by David Norton » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:06 am

Very good, Jorge, and thank you for launching a new Study Project. I found the Op. 60 Project to be very worthwhile, and expect that this new Op. 35 Project will also prove beneficial to those who choose to enter the game.

Let 2019 be a great year for all of us.
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT
First person to complete the Delcamp "Let's Learn Sor's Opus 60" project

soltirefa
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by soltirefa » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:55 am

I just took a look at Opus 35 and see two of Segovia's Sor in the bunch; D major and B minor. Sounds like a fun project.

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Tom Poore
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Tom Poore » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:56 am

Maybe this will help get the ball rolling. I did Op. 35, No. 14 a few years ago. (Hope I’m not jumping the gun by skipping ahead to 14.) I originally posted this to the “Our recordings of Fernando Sor” section of Delcamp. But the old link is dead, so I may as well revive it here.



This etude tackles the challenge of playing dotted rhythms. These are always hard for the right hand—one must take particular care to give them the bounce and snap they need, without inadvertently rounding them off. Not content with giving us a single challenge, Sor also adds the problem of articulating two voices that are doing different things at the same time.

When faced with repeats, I usually try to vary them. In this piece, that meant changing the left hand fingering at the end of the B section. This makes for a bit more effort in learning the piece. But to me, it’s worth it.

• guitar: German Vazquez Rubio Estudio Model
• mics: DPA 2011C
• interface: Apogee Mini-Me
• DAW: Audacity
• reverb: LiquidSonics Reverberate Core

Tom Poore
South Euclid, OH
USA

Nick Cutroneo
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:06 am

I'll throw my hat into the ring for this. I already did #1 in August of 2017 (I hope that's ok). Might as well finish the whole Opus!

Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

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Jorge Oliveira
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Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:18 pm

David Norton wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:06 am
Very good, Jorge, and thank you for launching a new Study Project. I found the Op. 60 Project to be very worthwhile, and expect that this new Op. 35 Project will also prove beneficial to those who choose to enter the game.

Let 2019 be a great year for all of us.
Thank you, David, it is indeed a nice little piece. I might have played it a bit faster - 1/4 = 130 or 140 bpm, for example - but then I was afraid it might not have sounded like the Andante Sor intended.

As for the launch of the new thread, well, I just followed your suggestion to start it beginning of this year :D. And believe me, it is a pleasure for me to initiate this new Project, to manage it, and learn the pieces of this Opus together with you and other Forum Members who have already expressed their willingness to participate - Yisrael van Handel, powderedtoastman, and others I don't recall right now. I'm also counting on other more experienced players - mainterm, Alexander Kalil, Tom Poore and others - to guide us along with their valuable comments :D.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

Nick Cutroneo
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:22 am
Location: Manchester, CT

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:09 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:18 pm
I might have played it a bit faster - 1/4 = 130 or 140 bpm, for example - but then I was afraid it might not have sounded like the Andante Sor intended.
Feeling it in 2 (or even in 1) can be very helpful to play the piece faster and still retain the "Andante" feel. The baseline certainly helps to reinforce that idea.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:35 pm

soltirefa wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:55 am
I just took a look at Opus 35 and see two of Segovia's Sor in the bunch; D major and B minor. Sounds like a fun project.
Will you join us? You would be most welcome :).
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

Kenbobpdx
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Kenbobpdx » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:01 pm

I seldom post recordings but this sounds like a good fun undertaking. I’m game to add to this.
"If I had 8 hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe."
Abraham Lincoln

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:03 pm

Tom Poore wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:56 am
Maybe this will help get the ball rolling. I did Op. 35, No. 14 a few years ago. (Hope I’m not jumping the gun by skipping ahead to 14.) I originally posted this to the “Our recordings of Fernando Sor” section of Delcamp. But the old link is dead, so I may as well revive it here.
...
Wonderful rendition of the Opus 35 #14, Tom :D. And no, there is no implicit order whatsoever concerning the rendition any one wants to post, all are welcome at any time and can only enrich the thread. The #14 is beautiful and your comments quite valuable. But now I must confess I got scared :cry:. Though being graded as a Novice piece, it looks, nonetheless, quite elaborate and I wonder if I'll ever be able to attain that level of playing :(. But let's hope...

With this rendition of yours, the table of posted (TPR) records is the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 01Jan19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

Edited to correct the Table of Posted Records
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 932
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:41 pm

Nick Cutroneo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:06 am
I'll throw my hat into the ring for this. I already did #1 in August of 2017 (I hope that's ok). Might as well finish the whole Opus!
...
Welcome to this thread, Nick, your contributions will be much appreciated, I'm sure. I listened to your rendition and it seems perfect to me, although I thought that it was supposed to be played not so fast. But, indeed, it sounds nice. I also started listening to the lesson (the rest of the video clip) but did not finish yet.

Concerning you second post,
Nick Cutroneo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:09 pm
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:18 pm
I might have played it a bit faster - 1/4 = 130 or 140 bpm, for example - but then I was afraid it might not have sounded like the Andante Sor intended.
Feeling it in 2 (or even in 1) can be very helpful to play the piece faster and still retain the "Andante" feel. The baseline certainly helps to reinforce that idea.
I do not understand what you mean by "Feeling it in 2 (or even in 1)...". Would you, please, be more specific? I would be quite grateful :).

With this rendition of yours, Nick, the table of posted (TPR) becomes the following the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 01Jan19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

Edited to correct the Table of Posted Records
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 932
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:43 pm

Kenbobpdx wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:01 pm
I seldom post recordings but this sounds like a good fun undertaking. I’m game to add to this.
Good, welcome aboard, Kenbobpdx, and let's learn and have fun together... :D
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

Nick Cutroneo
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:22 am
Location: Manchester, CT

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:54 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:41 pm

I do not understand what you mean by "Feeling it in 2 (or even in 1)...". Would you, please, be more specific? I would be quite grateful :).
Jorge - the piece is in 4/4 time. However, instead of beating the quarter notes, I've chosen to feel the pulse of the music as half notes. So I'm playing the piece in "2/2" in my mind. To me, this takes the heavy handed accents off beats 2 and 4 and they sound more like "up beats". The end result is that if the quarter note is at 144, the half notes are moving at 72 (half the speed of the quarter notes). To me, the slow rhythm of the bass line in the A section combined with the half note melody in the B and C sections of this piece support the concept of feeling the pulse in 2 rather than in 4. The end result is a more lyrical line.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

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David Norton
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by David Norton » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:01 pm

soltirefa wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:55 am
I just took a look at Opus 35 and see two of Segovia's Sor in the bunch; D major and B minor. Sounds like a fun project.
Four, actually:

35/13 = Segovia #2, C major
35/16 = Segovia #15, D minor
35/17 = Segovia #6, D major
35/22 = Segovia #5, B minor (the super-famous one)
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT
First person to complete the Delcamp "Let's Learn Sor's Opus 60" project

SleepyheadRooster
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Location: Oregon

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by SleepyheadRooster » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:44 am

Tom Poore wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:56 am
Maybe this will help get the ball rolling. I did Op. 35, No. 14 a few years ago. (Hope I’m not jumping the gun by skipping ahead to 14.) I originally posted this to the “Our recordings of Fernando Sor” section of Delcamp. But the old link is dead, so I may as well revive it here.



This etude tackles the challenge of playing dotted rhythms. These are always hard for the right hand—one must take particular care to give them the bounce and snap they need, without inadvertently rounding them off. Not content with giving us a single challenge, Sor also adds the problem of articulating two voices that are doing different things at the same time.

When faced with repeats, I usually try to vary them. In this piece, that meant changing the left hand fingering at the end of the B section. This makes for a bit more effort in learning the piece. But to me, it’s worth it.

• guitar: German Vazquez Rubio Estudio Model
• mics: DPA 2011C
• interface: Apogee Mini-Me
• DAW: Audacity
• reverb: LiquidSonics Reverberate Core

Tom Poore
South Euclid, OH
USA
This is lovely playing and an educational post. Thank you very much and Happy New Year!
Best,
Chuck

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