José Ramirez...or not ?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
guitarplayer
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:17 am

José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by guitarplayer » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:35 am

Good morning everyone,

Really happy to start on this forum with my 1st (actually 2nd after the presentation ;) ) post.
And back to the basics I'm going to invest in a good study guitar, and found this Jose Ramirez model.
However, the it's stated as a 1E from the Luthier, but, I've never seen such a head with Ramirez guitars?
(I've attached pictures)
Could anyone have info on it and/or confirm it's a real one ?

Many thanks to everyone !

Clém'
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Brittunculus
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:03 pm

Re: José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by Brittunculus » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:58 pm

It’s a student model. Perfectly decent well built instruments made for Ramirez. I owned one for a while before I bought a guitar hand-made by Colin Morison and realised what good guitars should sound like.

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bear
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Re: José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by bear » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:21 pm

The head stock looks different. It may be a Ramirez, maybe not. The "maybe" would be enough to make me walk away.
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Giustina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

guitarplayer
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:17 am

Re: José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by guitarplayer » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:27 pm

Brittunculus wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:58 pm
It’s a student model. Perfectly decent well built instruments made for Ramirez. I owned one for a while before I bought a guitar hand-made by Colin Morison and realised what good guitars should sound like.
Thank you both ! Brittunculus, did you remember the head Bear is talking about ?

Many thanks :)

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rinneby
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Re: José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by rinneby » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:55 pm

Why anyone would try to fake an Estudio model from Ramirez is beyond me? But stranger things have happened...

Do you own this guitar? To me it looks more like a Japanese guitar from the 70s.

/Jon
1964 - Masaru Kohno
1967 - Masaru Kohno
1989 - Antonio Marin Montero
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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Keith
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Re: José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by Keith » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 am

I believe the headstock on the Ramirez student guitars has changed over the years so it could be an older student guitar. The label looks correct and clean so it is unlikely the label was removed from a Ramirez and slapped into another guitar but then again steam sometimes can do wonders. The rosette looks interesting --it looks pink which would be unusual for Ramirez. The top looks to be spruce which is definitely not characteristic of Ramirez after he discovered WRC. It is likely this is an older Ramirez. Is there a date on the label? Clem, you mentioned the luthier said... Is this guitar being sold by a luthier? If so, has said luthier given his/her OK on the condition? What price are we talking here?
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

guitarras en la espiritu de la:
Marcelo Barbero
Jose Ramirez III

OldPotter
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Re: José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by OldPotter » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:39 am

Studio guitars are made for Ramirez in another workshop. The headstock shape may well vary. Amalia Ramirez seems to like brighter colours in rosettes so it may be that its fairly recent, I can't remember how long she has been in charge. It might be that the colour in the picture is just a poor rendition.

I can't see a "1E" listed after a quick search, I think I remember that the "E" series preceded the later "NE" series. They seem to have more ornate headstocks.

Personally, I don't doubt that its a Ramirez. The real question is a much harder one to answer, does it play and sound well?

A quick look at the recent models shows that they can be ordered in spruce or cedar.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

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Keith
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Re: José Ramirez...or not ?

Post by Keith » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:08 am

I went to the Ramirez site and the label in question appears to be the one used from 1957-1967. Those labels for studio guitars are 55 mm x 83 mm, have no color border than I can see, the line around the border is not ornate and have the address, calle de la paz. The sound board looks to be spruce so I would guess it is from the early part of the range of dates. I could not make out a date on the label in question. If the guitar is from the late 50's to early 60's my first concern would be the structural integrity such as neck angle and warping.

http://www.nopanic.com/gitram/eng-etiquetas2.htm
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

guitarras en la espiritu de la:
Marcelo Barbero
Jose Ramirez III

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