Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

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Conall
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Conall » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:05 pm

Ahmed Hamza wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:48 pm
Is there pieces for beginners
thank you very much
Regards
Ahmed
Frankly, there is no such thing as a tremolo piece "for beginners" because tremolo is an advanced technique.

However for those wishing to play easiER tremolo pieces I have uploaded 3 of my own arrangements which I use for my own students of tremolo. There are plenty of exercises for tremolo available but I have written some of these too which I teach pupils before tackling tremolo pieces.

Exercises:

https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... 2&t=122244

Study 1:

https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... y#p1302558

Study 2:

https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... y#p1302595

Study 3:

https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... y#p1302794

Crofty
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Crofty » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:15 pm

Conall

I think it's true to sy that the basic rh actions involved in tremolo are pretty basic. The difficulty is with the required tempo for it to make musical sense and the endurance of course.

But my own view is that the left hand skills of, say, RDLA and Limosnita are much more advanced than the right hand ones.

Also that, in the obsession of many guitarists in playing such pieces well before they are technically in a position to do them justice, there is a tendency for the actual musical side of things - in other words, what it is all about! - to be ignored.

Recent threads on tremolo technique illustrate how disinterested people are in discussing the musical elements, as opposed to the technical ones.

Paul

ps Your exercises look very useful by the way.

decacorde
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by decacorde » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:42 pm

Not on the list is Heinrich Albert's "Mandolinata".

Ahmed Hamza
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Ahmed Hamza » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:02 pm

thank you very much Mr.Conall

Conall
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Conall » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:12 am

Crofty wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:15 pm
Conall

I think it's true to say that the basic rh actions involved in tremolo are pretty basic. The difficulty is with the required tempo for it to make musical sense and the endurance of course.

But my own view is that the left hand skills of, say, RDLA and Limosnita are much more advanced than the right hand ones.

Also that, in the obsession of many guitarists in playing such pieces well before they are technically in a position to do them justice, there is a tendency for the actual musical side of things - in other words, what it is all about! - to be ignored.

Recent threads on tremolo technique illustrate how disinterested people are in discussing the musical elements, as opposed to the technical ones.

Paul

ps Your exercises look very useful by the way.
Ta Paul.

The exercises have worked for my pupils & I use them & these pieces as warmups for more difficult pieces.

RDLA etc are both technically & musically difficult but I guess the main point of tremolo pieces is that they are not worth approaching until tremolo is even, fast enough & independent of thumb harmony / bass.

Once the basic mechanics of RH tremolo are mastered then the other aspect (namely musical expression) of a tremolo piece can & needs to be dealt with.

To me the sequence should be:

1. Sound general CG technique
2. Standard "correct" free stroke technique
3. A good mechanical tremolo technique based on 2. above i.e. even, fairly brisk & independent (of the the thumb)
4. A good understanding of what is regarded as "musical" in terms of expression and an ability to render this whlle achieving a technically effective tremolo effect.

Too often it seems to me that one or more of the above is missing in public renditions of tremolo pieces such as RDLA - even in performances by well known guitarists.

Conall
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Conall » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:15 am

Ahmed Hamza wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:02 pm
thank you very much Mr.Conall
My pleasure Ahmed.

It is indeed difficult to find tremolo pieces that are not overly challenging which is why I arranged those pieces.

Ahmed Hamza
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Ahmed Hamza » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:35 pm

Thank you ver+++++ Conall
regardesــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ Ahmed

Conall
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Conall » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Ahmed Hamza wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:35 pm
Thank you ver+++++ Conall
regardesــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ Ahmed
If you do try my exercises & arrangements do tell me how you get on.

Best wishes,

Conall

Ahmed Hamza
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Ahmed Hamza » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:56 pm

I will give you the result
regardesــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ Ahmed

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sxedio
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by sxedio » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:47 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:20 am
Thanks for your hard work on this subject - this will be a handy reference.

One point - I don't think that the Carcassi should be included - except perhaps in an addendum i.e. "Works that may be used to cultivate the pami mechanism."

Musically its intent is far removed from the effect of tremolo despite the (erroneous) fingering often attached.
I agree that Carcassi is not really 'tremolo' especially as it starts doing string crossings a few bars in. But do we have a date or an inventor for tremolo? Tarrega is obviously a reference point but in this thread Mozzani and Albert come up and they are not quite part of Tarrega's school the way the later generations of german or italian players would be.
(Gr) (En) (very little Fr)

Impresario
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Impresario » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:46 pm

Vojislav Ivanovic " 6 Pièces de Café ( for Darko Petrinjak & Istvan Römer)" ,Chanterelle 778.

Copyright 1993 Michael Macmeeken, Chanterelle Verlag ( GEMA)

Azabagic plays " Café 5, Nostalgia, Tremolo study " on YT.
All tremolo notes can be played on the first string.

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guitarrista
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by guitarrista » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:20 pm

Ahmed Hamza wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:48 pm
Is there pieces for beginners?
Here's how I think about it. (Classical) Tremolo is a right-hand technique. It needs to be employed within a beautiful or interesting composition in order to be pleasing. The technique itself is neither here nor there; it can be pretty lifeless and very quickly super-boring without the musical qualities of a nice composition - as you no doubt are aware from beginner's exercises where you are asked to practice open-e tremolo on the 1st sting with open string bass notes, for example.

The technique itself is a fairly advanced skill for the right hand. However, an interesting composition does not require the left-hand patterns to be complicated. So, what is an easy tremolo; a tremolo for beginners?

If 'easy tremolo' requires both the right and the left hand to have easy jobs - it does not exist.

However, if 'easy' is just about the left hand (and melody), then you can pick anything simple which is still interesting - it does not have to be a specific piece. You can just cycle through 2-3 easy chords with the left hand. Or start walking around a minor scale harmonized in thirds (two scale degrees interval) - which is what the beginning of Tarrega's Recuerdos de la Alhambra mostly is. Or harmonized in 6ths; it does not matter. This gives you a chance to practice your right-hand tremolo technique without killing your soul but also without investing time in learning a particular composition. And you can change the left-hand pattern to something similarly-familiar to you, yet still melodic, as soon as your ears get tired.

More generally, and to get back on the thread's topic: Because there is an almost limitless amount of 'easy tremolos' (in the second sense), it made no sense to me to try collecting these and adding them to my Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces list. Also, one can modify almost any simple existing piece into a tremolo - it is a RH technique, after all. It is too trivial to generate 'easy tremolos' so this was not of interest to me. I still struggled with the 'grey zone' between clearly interesting and/or original tremolo pieces and clearly trivial pieces (like where the tremolo pitches are 1st string e, f# g and that's about it).
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Conall
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Conall » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:26 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:20 pm
Ahmed Hamza wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:48 pm
Is there pieces for beginners?
Here's how I think about it. (Classical) Tremolo is a right-hand technique. It needs to be employed within a beautiful or interesting composition in order to be pleasing. The technique itself is neither here nor there; it can be pretty lifeless and very quickly super-boring without the musical qualities of a nice composition - as you no doubt are aware from beginner's exercises where you are asked to practice open-e tremolo on the 1st sting with open string bass notes, for example.

The technique itself is a fairly advanced skill for the right hand. However, an interesting composition does not require the left-hand patterns to be complicated. So, what is an easy tremolo; a tremolo for beginners?

If 'easy tremolo' requires both the right and the left hand to have easy jobs - it does not exist.

However, if 'easy' is just about the left hand (and melody), then you can pick anything simple which is still interesting - it does not have to be a specific piece. You can just cycle through 2-3 easy chords with the left hand......
I understand what you are saying but despite what you say, obviously there will be some tremolo pieces easier than others.

It's true that the left hand has the biggest potential for difference in difficulty but some aspects of RH tremolo vary in difficulty too - tempo is one but also whether it is on 1st string as against the other strings on which it is harder to avoid glancing off physically lower strings.

It's also true that, as tremolo is an advanced technique, one would expect only advanced players to attempt it & that these would be capable of making up their own tremolo exercises and make tremolo pieces at sight from suitable pieces. This is indeed what I did decades ago.

But there's still a place for ready-made tremolo arrangements & compositions for those who want them / don't want to arrange their own / want to learn to arrange their own & want to begin on a tremolo piece that's shorter and easier than Recuerdos or one of the Barrios tremolos (for example).

This is presumably what Ahmed & others like him are looking for.

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guitarrista
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by guitarrista » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:12 am

Conall wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:26 pm
But there's still a place for ready-made tremolo arrangements & compositions for those who want them / don't want to arrange their own / want to learn to arrange their own & want to begin on a tremolo piece that's shorter and easier than Recuerdos or one of the Barrios tremolos (for example).
Of course. I did not mean to imply that composing easy pieces is not valuable or useful. I guess I was more focused on demonstrating to Ahmed how one can come up with simple or familiar LH patterns and on justifying why I am trying to stay away from really simple tremolo pieces in terms of what makes it onto my list :D

As to 1st vs. 2nd or other-string tremolo - IMO if one can do 1st string tremolo well but not other strings, then the tremolo technique is not established yet (one should read what I said above with that in mind). Currently I lean towards advocating starting tremolo technique on 2nd string and only adding 1st a bit later on - i.e. not starting with exclusive 1st string tremolo.
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Conall
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Re: Classical Guitar Tremolo Pieces: A Reference Guide

Post by Conall » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:43 am

guitarrista wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:12 am
As to 1st vs. 2nd or other-string tremolo - IMO if one can do 1st string tremolo well but not other strings, then the tremolo technique is not established yet (one should read what I said above with that in mind). Currently I lean towards advocating starting tremolo technique on 2nd string and only adding 1st a bit later on - i.e. not starting with exclusive 1st string tremolo.
Yes I'm aware of the potential problem of focussing entirely on 1st string tremolo first but it's clear that, even with good tremolo technique it is possible to unintentionally hit the 1st string while doing tremolo on the 2nd, as evidenced by the number of pros who, in performance, do just that ocassionally while playing the A section of Recuerdos.

Therefore starting on pieces which feature more (but not exclusively) tremolo on 1st string helps to inspire sorely needed confidence in students beginning tremolo who have enough to worry about without having to avoid a musically higher string.

It's true that 1st string tremolo should not be fundamentally different from tremolo on other strings. However, simply because there is no string physically below, there is the possibility of being able to play louder tremolo on the 1st simply by doing free stroke with a wider arc than you can employ on the 2nd or other strings. This is one of the many reasons that RDLA is such a successful piece: the B section (in brighter A major) starting on 1st string encourages a louder & more dramatic dynamic than the quieter, more reflective A section (in darker A minor) starting on 2nd string.

But I accept that another approach (yours) is to focus on tremolo on strings other than the 1st at the beginning & if that works for you & your students, well & good!

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