New vs older guitar

gttxc
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New vs older guitar

Post by gttxc » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:40 pm

I am looking at getting a new guitar. I currently own a di Giorgio belson 36. While it is a good sounding guitar the sound board is warped, pitching the bridge forward, causing the strings to buzz behind the saddle. Being a beginner, the high action required to prevent the buzzing, or the buzzing being distracting and confusing, is detrimental to my progress.

For buying a guitar, as usual, there are two options, new or used. My concern is the life of a guitar, pertaining to the playability of it. I’d prefer to get a guitar of high quality wood and tone but I am concerned about sound board warping, neck bowing, cracking and anything else. Is this something to be concerned about if the guitar is, now, in good condition? Should I get a new guitar of lesser quality ensuring greater playability for a longer time?

Budget 900 CAD ~ 700 USD

USED
I’m looking at used guitars around 20 years of age. The two specifically are a Raimund 138 and an Antonio Sanchez 1027.

NEW
La Patrie Collection or Córdoba c5.

Wanting to try out guitars before buying I’m limited to, the used market, la patrie, corboba, and alamansa.

My main concern is the degradation of the playability of older, better guitars, compared to lesser quality, higher consistency, warranty, and piece of mind buying new.

Thanks for any help!,

simonm
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by simonm » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:04 pm

It would help if you say where you are located.

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dta721
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by dta721 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:15 pm

simonm wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:04 pm
It would help if you say where you are located.
Not in the OP signature, but in his (?) first post, from Vancouver, Canada.

I checked Kijiji, Craiglist in that area, maybe just bad timing, there are currently not many choices! :( e.g. in Ottawa Kijiji, there is a 1983 Yamaha GC-3A asking $500, and a used De Casia in Montreal, Talia model for $450!

djqsrv
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by djqsrv » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:26 pm

The Córdoba c5 is a great instrument at its price point. Try a few of them if you can. Most are good but some are better then the others. My local guitar center had a used la Patrie on the wall and I was not a fan. It felt kind of cheap to me. I don’t remember it’s model number.
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Philosopherguy
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by Philosopherguy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:33 pm

Plenty of used guitars come up for sale in the Vancouver area. If you keep your eyes open, I'm sure you can find something nice. Otherwise, if you could save a tiny bit more(I think in Canada they are around $1069 or so right now) and get a new Yamaha GC12c or something like that, it would likely be a very nice guitar for what you want.

Keep an eye out on Kijiji though and you may find something nice come up. The problem with older guitars is that they can have issues. Unless you know what to look for, they can present their own troubles.

Martin
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rwe
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by rwe » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:38 pm

If an old guitar is still good playable after 30 years - why should this worsen in the next years? The changes of an old guitar in the next 5 years related to sound, playability and structure will be less strong than the changes of a brand new guitar. Most of my instruments (steel strings as well as classical guitars) are build between 1975 and 1985 and they are still playable.

Consistency of new instruments doesn't matter because you want to buy a concrete instrument and you can compare this to other concrete instruments.

Warrenty: Hmm, only relevant if an instrument was built very poorly. I own about 40 fretted instruments (only 4 of them I bought as new instruments) and I never needed the support of a luthier. I wouldn't select an instrument by its warrenty but by the sound and the playability.

Lesser quality: Of course you can get an used instrument for half of the price or so of a new instrument. But the quality in the cheaper and the middle price range increased in the last decades.

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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by Philosopherguy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:35 pm

rwe wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:38 pm
If an old guitar is still good playable after 30 years - why should this worsen in the next years? The changes of an old guitar in the next 5 years related to sound, playability and structure will be less strong than the changes of a brand new guitar. Most of my instruments (steel strings as well as classical guitars) are build between 1975 and 1985 and they are still playable.
My point in saying that some older guitars have issues is that if you don't know what to look for, you can have costs that you can't see at the time. I have had many older guitars and had to do new frets on 2 of them. Not that I minded this and I did put new frets on them, but it is another cost that has to be added on to the price. It is not that older guitars go bad, but you have to know what to look for and know what you are getting into. With a new guitar, you are unlikely to have these issues for quite a few years.

Does everyone know to move the strings over to make sure you see the frets under the strings for wear? Does everyone know how to check if a neck is straight? Can you tell if braces are loose? These are small things that, if you know what to look for, can sometimes be more apparent (not always of course).

I too like older guitars. BUT, if you don't like to do any maintenance on guitars and have a fairly tight budget that doesn't include repairs, you might be better off with the newer guitar.

Just my opinion.

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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petermc61
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by petermc61 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:40 pm

Subject to checking for wear and faults as Martin suggests, I think you will get better value for money buying second hand. Plus a nice mature sound if you choose well.

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ameriken
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by ameriken » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:13 pm

petermc61 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:40 pm
if you choose well.
Yes, if you choose well.

I'm one who doesn't necessarily choose well on used items. Or perhaps I don't know what to look for or not look for. In my situation there are no decent shops in my area, leaving me to choose used from online which involved taking some risks, possibly doing some travel if there is something more locally, taking the time to see them (time was very limited), and then hoping I in the end that I didn't overpay for an undervalued guitar or lemon.

So I went with new. I was more comfortable buying something new from a dealer knowing I could return it, the warranty did add a level of comfort (or peace of mind), and I was able to make a purchase with less time involved than I anticipated it would take to hopefully find the right used guitar.

So I agree with the idea that one can get a better guitar for the money when going with used, but as petermc61 said, you've got to choose well. If you're not comfortable with that, then new is still a fine way to go.
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Rognvald
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by Rognvald » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:19 pm

Buy the best guitar for the money. That always means used. Buy from a reputable dealer who is not just looking for a sale but repeat business in the future. I would look at luthiers'/vendors inventory across the country who will guarantee the guitar and offer a full money back promise if not satisfied. This is the Y2K and you don't have to limit your search to your local area. I hope this helps. Playing again . . .Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:20 pm

"Can you tell if braces are loose? "

umm, no. How do you do this? (Look inside the guitar through the sound hole with a mirror?--and then where do you get the mirror? Dentist office?)
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Philosopherguy
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by Philosopherguy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:25 pm

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:20 pm
"Can you tell if braces are loose? "

umm, no. How do you do this? (Look inside the guitar through the sound hole with a mirror?--and then where do you get the mirror? Dentist office?)
Have you ever heard a loose brace? If you listen closely, sometimes you can hear it (I have noticed it on a guitar and I turned out to be correct when the owner had no idea). And you will note that I did say that you can't always tell these problems.

For the record, anyone can get a mirror at home depot. My local store carries them. Don't be so arrogant and judgemental with well-founded statements people make. Just because you can't hear something, doesn't mean that no one can.

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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ameriken
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by ameriken » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Philosopherguy wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:25 pm
Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:20 pm
"Can you tell if braces are loose? "

umm, no. How do you do this? (Look inside the guitar through the sound hole with a mirror?--and then where do you get the mirror? Dentist office?)
Have you ever heard a loose brace? If you listen closely, sometimes you can hear it (I have noticed it on a guitar and I turned out to be correct when the owner had no idea). And you will note that I did say that you can't always tell these problems.

For the record, anyone can get a mirror at home depot. My local store carries them. Don't be so arrogant and judgemental with well-founded statements people make. Just because you can't hear something, doesn't mean that no one can.

Martin
True but on the other hand, just because some people know what to look and listen for, doesn't mean that everyone does.
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Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:08 pm

"Don't be so arrogant and judgemental with well-founded statements people make. Just because you can't hear something, doesn't mean that no one can. "


Maybe there's a miscommunication here? I was asking because I honestly don't know. I wish that I could say thanks for your reply. I won't apologize for my lack of knowledge in this matter.

"Have you ever heard a loose brace? "

No, I haven't. I've had sex though. Many times.
Last edited by Jeffrey Armbruster on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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gttxc
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Re: New vs older guitar

Post by gttxc » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:26 pm

Wow guys! Thanks for all the responses. I am a beginner but this will be my 3rd time buying a guitar through Craigslist. The first time went great and I eventually made money off of it but the second time, the guitar I have now, was a mistake.

I went to long and mcquade(Canadian big box retailer) and in my price range the la patrie concerto was my favourite at 650.

The Antonio Sanchez 1027 blew me away. Sounds great, played super easy, intonation was never outside 10 cents. I did knock around and I didn’t hear anything strange or inconsistent. There was no buzzing either, except for on the wound strings on the 5th and 7th fret. Here was a very slight buzzing behind the saddle. This was remedied by pushing down the string behind the saddle. I have noticed this on almost every guitar I’ve tried, even the new ones. I do realize this is a flamenco. THe only guitar that compared was a GC Yamaha for 1350 in long and mcquade, the Sanchez was listed at 950. The other thing I noticed is a slight bulge behind the bridge but again I noticed it on all the guitars, even new.

Does anyone know if this “behind the saddle buzzing” always exist? Is a slight bulge normal?

I’m gonna try to get him down a little as it above my budget and when I see it again check inside with a mirror, check neck relief and straightness. But man did i like it.

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