String Beads/Tie Block systems

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
MNClassical
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String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by MNClassical » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:56 pm

Does anyone have any input on whether or not using string beads on a bridge tie block that already has 12 holes is helpful or not?
It would obviously help prevent wear on the Tie Block, but would it be an even better "string break" angle than the 12 hole bridge already gives?

Thanks in advance!

prawnheed

Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by prawnheed » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:25 pm

String beads don't change the break angle.

John Forgan
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by John Forgan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:40 pm

I think they may theoretically change the break angle on a 6 hole bridge as the loop under the string at the front of the bridge would tend to raise the string and hence decrease the break angle. With a string bead this wouldn't happen, but whether the change is significant is another matter.

It wouldn't affect a 12 hole bridge however.

MNClassical
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by MNClassical » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:15 pm

corius wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:40 pm
I think they may theoretically change the break angle on a 6 hole bridge as the loop under the string at the front of the bridge would tend to raise the string and hence decrease the break angle. With a string bead this wouldn't happen, but whether the change is significant is another matter.

It wouldn't affect a 12 hole bridge however.
That's what I thought. Thanks for the input!

GMR
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by GMR » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:56 am

I have a Córdoba C5 Limited. The top plate of the bridge where the tied strings run across has some very simple inlay with no finish on it. I got this guitar last Summer and that bridge top is already getting indentations for the twists and pressures the strings exert. I wanted to try some of the string ties. But since I was not sure how I would like them, wasn’t keen on a twenty dollar experiment, and could not quite come to terms with the added bulky look on the backside of the bridge, I decided to simply try some beads. I found a string of 6mm diameter disc shaped beads made from coconut shell. They are only a couple mm thick. Put them on last night. I thought I would see a big difference in the break angle but there was only a very subtle change. I do try to get the loop under the front of the string as low as I can when putting on my strings in the traditional way, so that gives me a good break angle anyway, I think. What I did find was the string knots settled in much quicker than traditional tying and these thin disc type beads are very unobtrusive. They actually look much cleaner to me than the traditionally tied strings and a lot less stark looking than commercially available string ties. They are nearly the same base color as the rosewood in the bridge. The guitar sounds great and has a refreshing resonance.... but that might just be the new strings..... most likely. Definitely going to go with this fastening method on this particular guitar.
Garland

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Beowulf
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by Beowulf » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:35 pm

String ties (Rosette) do change the break angle on my GC-10 and with this comes a slightly increased resistance to my right hand finger strokes. This makes for a slightly increased speed of "return to centre" for the strings and a little faster feel to the response. It is a subtle difference, but noticeable. The effect would likely vary with each instrument and I may try them on my GC82S, to discover if I like them. I have no issue with the aesthetics and in any case I'm not looking at the bridge while I play.
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

prawnheed

Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by prawnheed » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:38 pm

GMR wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:56 am
I have a Córdoba C5 Limited. The top plate of the bridge where the tied strings run across has some very simple inlay with no finish on it. I got this guitar last Summer and that bridge top is already getting indentations for the twists and pressures the strings exert. I wanted to try some of the string ties. But since I was not sure how I would like them, wasn’t keen on a twenty dollar experiment, and could not quite come to terms with the added bulky look on the backside of the bridge, I decided to simply try some beads. I found a string of 6mm diameter disc shaped beads made from coconut shell. They are only a couple mm thick. Put them on last night. I thought I would see a big difference in the break angle but there was only a very subtle change. I do try to get the loop under the front of the string as low as I can when putting on my strings in the traditional way, so that gives me a good break angle anyway, I think. What I did find was the string knots settled in much quicker than traditional tying and these thin disc type beads are very unobtrusive. They actually look much cleaner to me than the traditionally tied strings and a lot less stark looking than commercially available string ties. They are nearly the same base color as the rosewood in the bridge. The guitar sounds great and has a refreshing resonance.... but that might just be the new strings..... most likely. Definitely going to go with this fastening method on this particular guitar.
How did you attach the bead to the string?

GMR
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by GMR » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:08 pm

The beads have a pretty small center hole. I just tied a simple stop knot in the string end, leaving an inch or so on the tag end to allow the knot some slippage as they settled in. The only string that I wondered about was the first string but there seems to be plenty enough bulk to the knot to prevent any prospect of pulling through the bead hole
Garland

celestemcc
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by celestemcc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:53 pm

12-hole ties are pretty simple, and very secure, I've found...
2015 Connor spruce/Indian rosewood
1978 Ramirez 1a cedar

riffmeister
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by riffmeister » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:31 pm

corius wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:40 pm
I think they may theoretically change the break angle on a 6 hole bridge as the loop under the string at the front of the bridge would tend to raise the string and hence decrease the break angle. With a string bead this wouldn't happen, but whether the change is significant is another matter.

It wouldn't affect a 12 hole bridge however.
Exactly.

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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by riffmeister » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:39 pm

Beads will increase the weight of the bridge. Since luthiers tend to worry about this variable, I imagine there will be some effect (perhaps miniscule) on the sound and response of the instrument.

GMR
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by GMR » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:31 pm

Oddly this guitar’s response seems to have improved just a bit but that may well simply be the new strings. These beads are pretty tiny. The bridge on this C5 does not have any protective cap on the tie block and no finish so it seems fairly minimalist. These beads are way smaller overall than the commercially available ties. So far, I like the results. I have a whole string of these beads, so next string change on my Esteso will include using the beads. The tie block is noticeably deeper on that guitar. I think the break angle will definitely be steeper using the beads. There is a plastic or bone cap on top of the tie block on that guitar that protects the wood.
Garland

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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by Scott Phillips » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:17 am

While I haven't tried beads, I did give the Rosetta string ties a try. They moved around too much for my liking, and one of them vibrated against the back side of the tie block. I do have a set of Martin strings with ball ends that the local dealer gave me as a sample that I will try. I've never seen them before, so I don't know if they are the same as beads.

Could a bead do damage to the guitar if the string breaks? That has been my reasoning behind tying them the old fashioned way. Am I worrying needlessly?

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ameriken
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by ameriken » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:41 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:17 am
While I haven't tried beads, I did give the Rosetta string ties a try. They moved around too much for my liking, and one of them vibrated against the back side of the tie block. I do have a set of Martin strings with ball ends that the local dealer gave me as a sample that I will try. I've never seen them before, so I don't know if they are the same as beads.

Could a bead do damage to the guitar if the string breaks? That has been my reasoning behind tying them the old fashioned way. Am I worrying needlessly?
I hope so (that you’re worrying needlessly). Those Rosette beads are pretty light. When I had a g break, the bead didn’t become a projectile, just fell off and didn’t leave a mark. But then again I had a kling on under the beads since it broke during a string change. I’m always more worried about what the rest of the string might do if one breaks.
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es335
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Re: String Beads/Tie Block systems

Post by es335 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:57 pm

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:17 am
... I do have a set of Martin strings with ball ends that the local dealer gave me as a sample that I will try. I've never seen them before, so I don't know if they are the same as beads ...
Their treble's ball ends can be removed after use and recycled with other straight end trebles! :wink:

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