Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

AdamRoth
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by AdamRoth » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:01 pm

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the luthier gets more commissions over the next six months then he ever has before. I bet they’d all be happy customers, too.
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soltirefa
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by soltirefa » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:05 pm

I would like to thank all the members of the forum who didn't post to this thread.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:11 pm

soltirefa wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:05 pm
I would like to thank all the members of the forum who didn't post to this thread.
Now you ran into a logical paradoxon for yourself here...
But seriously, not every post was evil or nonsensical. You just passed another judgment. I'm sure there will be a positive outcome in the end.
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pogmoor
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by pogmoor » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:23 pm

David Norton plays a very nice 8-string by Mr. Redman here: viewtopic.php?f=110&t=119488&p=1272921#p1272700
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Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

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Justfun
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by Justfun » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:42 pm

pogmoor wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:23 pm
David Norton plays a very nice 8-string by Mr. Redman here: viewtopic.php?f=110&t=119488&p=1272921#p1272700
thank you for sharing really nice guitar!

Fred
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Ramirez 4NE 2011

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Beowulf
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by Beowulf » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:23 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:38 pm
djqsrv wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:30 pm
.................. This is specifically why I request a 50% non-refundable deposit with every commission, before I start with building a guitar.

...........
50% non-refundable deposit seems excessive compared to well established Luthiers with $400 to $500 non-refundable deposit for guitars that are $8,000 and up. What is the rational and justification for it?
Well...I paid a 50% deposit on my Yamaha GC82S and that wasn't small change. Had I backed out, would Yamaha been able to sell the instrument? Sure, but no one wants a commissioned instrument sitting around in inventory for months or longer after a great deal of work. Well established luthiers, e.g., the Hausers have huge waiting lists of 5 years or more and are much more likely to be able to move the instrument out to a sale fairly quickly.
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souldier
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by souldier » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:34 pm

Anyone else feel its time to lock this thread to further discussion?
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chiral3
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by chiral3 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 pm

souldier wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:34 pm
Anyone else feel its time to lock this thread to further discussion?
Good idea, but let me one-up you: I have an idea... instead of locking it, let's just see if we can refrain from adding anymore commentary, as a group,..., a family. One big happy family. :D
"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect" - Margaret Mitchell

SteveL123
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:45 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:23 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:38 pm
djqsrv wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:30 pm
.................. This is specifically why I request a 50% non-refundable deposit with every commission, before I start with building a guitar.

...........
50% non-refundable deposit seems excessive compared to well established Luthiers with $400 to $500 non-refundable deposit for guitars that are $8,000 and up. What is the rational and justification for it?
Well...I paid a 50% deposit on my Yamaha GC82S and that wasn't small change. Had I backed out, would Yamaha been able to sell the instrument? Sure, but no one wants a commissioned instrument sitting around in inventory for months or longer after a great deal of work. Well established luthiers, e.g., the Hausers have huge waiting lists of 5 years or more and are much more likely to be able to move the instrument out to a sale fairly quickly.
Was your guitar highly customized and deviates from Yamaha's standard specs ?

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Beowulf
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by Beowulf » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:13 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:45 pm
Was your guitar highly customized and deviates from Yamaha's standard specs ?
It could have been, but was not; had it been it would have made no difference to the deposit required.
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

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zavaletas
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by zavaletas » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:29 am

I understand disappointment... it happens. As a dealer I have purchased over 1000 guitars from individual luthiers-- so this is more common than one would hope. Since in my case, returning a guitar to Spain costs more than addressing these issues, I have a luthier who I keep busier than I would like, but do so because I know what it is like to open a case and be disappointed. Even when I send out a "perfect" guitar, tastes matter and one doesn't always make a love match... so we have a return policy. This is something perhaps you might explore with your luthier. (As a general matter, one should understand the luthier's policies on returns, guarantees, flaws in materials or workmanship etc). Ordering from a luthier sight unseen is difficult. In my case, I have know each one well, and have a good idea what to expect. When an issue does arise, they are pretty good about repaying my costs. From what you describe, I would expect him to address these issues, not only at no costs to you, but with no shipping costs either, and perhaps even a gesture on price to compensate you for your pains.
James, Zavaleta's La Casa de Guitarras

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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:48 am

Beowulf wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:13 am
SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:45 pm
Was your guitar highly customized and deviates from Yamaha's standard specs ?
It could have been, but was not; had it been it would have made no difference to the deposit required.
Lets say your guitar cost $10,000. If you were not happy with the guitar, with the 50% non refundable deposit, you get $5,000 back if you return the guitar? I would never enter into such an agreement.

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lagartija
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by lagartija » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:19 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:48 am
Beowulf wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:13 am
SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:45 pm
Was your guitar highly customized and deviates from Yamaha's standard specs ?
It could have been, but was not; had it been it would have made no difference to the deposit required.
Lets say your guitar cost $10,000. If you were not happy with the guitar, with the 50% non refundable deposit, you get $5,000 back if you return the guitar? I would never enter into such an agreement.
I don’t think you can look at the requirement of 50% non refundable deposit without taking into account the selling price of the guitar. The choice materials used for a handmade guitar can run approximately $1000. Since the asking price was $2200 for this guitar, 50% would cover the investment in the materials and the commitment of making the guitar to be delivered on a particular schedule. For a $10000 guitar, the percentage of that amount for the materials is much less, so a 50% non refundable deposit would not be appropriate.
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djqsrv
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Re: Need advice on a just received luthier guitar.

Post by djqsrv » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:22 am

Ok. This thread has taken on a life that I never intended or wanted.
I have absolutely no ill will towards Joseph and I hope he goes on to sell hundreds and hundreds of guitars. I will not and frankly can not comment on any of his other guitars. I can only talk about the one that I had in my hand. It had problems. Joseph even admitted on here that it did. I only named him as the builder when he would not honor “his” guarantee. It clearly stated on his websight “a 30 day money back guarantee, provided that the instrument is returned, shipping and insurance paid, and in the same condition as it was upon initial delivery”. At that point I really needed the communities help and guidance. For whatever reason he is now honoring the guarantee. And I am thankful for that. In another day or so he will have his guitar back and I should have my money back and we can both live and learn from the situation.
If asked about this situation in the future I will not bash him and I will definitely let whoever is asking know that he did right by me in the end and that he is very passionate about what he does.
So whatever is decided to be done with this thread is fine by me. At this point its pretty off topic anyway.
So like Joseph I can’t see myself posting again in this thread unless something crazy happens.

Again I would like to thank the community for all the help and guidance.

Joseph, if you are still reading this, thank you for doing right by me. I hope as time goes by you can understand my position and not hold any bad feeling towards me. I don’t towards you.

Daniel
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

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