Sor Op 60 No 1

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Purnell31
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Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by Purnell31 » Fri May 04, 2018 12:19 pm

I'm working on the Sor Op 60/1 study (Tecla Ed 1993) and notice that Sor suggests that g be played throughout with the fourth finger. Despite my small hands my inclination is to use the third finger. Is there anything wrong following my own inclination or should I stick to Sor's suggested fingering? Watching a few performances on YouTube there's Rob MacKillop following Sor and Simon Powis using the third finger. I'm a newbie and am keen to get it right. Thanks.
Purnell31
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rinneby
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by rinneby » Fri May 04, 2018 12:31 pm

Purnell31 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 12:19 pm
I'm working on the Sor Op 60/1 study (Tecla Ed 1993) and notice that Sor suggests that g be played throughout with the fourth finger. Despite my small hands my inclination is to use the third finger. Is there anything wrong following my own inclination or should I stick to Sor's suggested fingering? Watching a few performances on YouTube there's Rob MacKillop following Sor and Simon Powis using the third finger. I'm a newbie and am keen to get it right. Thanks.
I'm no guitar teacher. But my humble opinion is to play the way it feels most comfortable to you (left hand).

/J
Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

RobMacKillop
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri May 04, 2018 4:03 pm

The g on the first string could be played with either the third or fourth. Although you see me using my fourth, on another day it could easily have been my third. I ask my students to try both ways. Try to resist going down the road of fixed fingerings when there are options. Eventually one will win out over the other, and either one is correct. As regards Sor, remember that he had a smaller guitar than you probably have, and that fingering can occasionally be somewhat different on smaller guitars with narrower fingerboards.

Purnell31
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by Purnell31 » Fri May 04, 2018 6:16 pm

Rimneby and Rob MacKillop - many thanks for your prompt and reassuring replies. Well, that settles it: third finger for Op 60/1.
Purnell31
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escasou
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by escasou » Sat May 12, 2018 8:06 am

Purnell31 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 12:19 pm
I'm working on the Sor Op 60/1 study (Tecla Ed 1993) and notice that Sor suggests that g be played throughout with the fourth finger. Despite my small hands my inclination is to use the third finger. Is there anything wrong following my own inclination or should I stick to Sor's suggested fingering? Watching a few performances on YouTube there's Rob MacKillop following Sor and Simon Powis using the third finger. I'm a newbie and am keen to get it right. Thanks.
Hi. It's usual to find the fourth finger in that kind of passages. If we notice the right hand position Sor suggests in his method, the use of the fourth finger is a good option. The use of that finger in an early stage (like in that kind of studies) is important. First, the sooner the finger starts to work the better and, secondly, it's use obliges the hand to stay in a more parallel position in relation to the fretboard, that is a logical position for many pedagogues.

Purnell31
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by Purnell31 » Sat May 12, 2018 10:41 am

escasou wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:06 am
. . . The use of that finger [the fourth] in an early stage (like in that kind of studies) is important. First, the sooner the finger starts to work the better . . .

Indeed! I now realise that favouring the third finger was most likely because the fourth was "the weak link". By involving it as much as possible it is bound to gain in strength. Thanks for pointing this out - lesson taken to heart!
Purnell31
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rpavich
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by rpavich » Sat May 12, 2018 1:13 pm

Purnell31 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:41 am
escasou wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:06 am
. . . The use of that finger [the fourth] in an early stage (like in that kind of studies) is important. First, the sooner the finger starts to work the better . . .

Indeed! I now realise that favouring the third finger was most likely because the fourth was "the weak link". By involving it as much as possible it is bound to gain in strength. Thanks for pointing this out - lesson taken to heart!
This is what my teacher has done for me repeatedly. When either 3rd or 4th finger are acceptable in a passage, he opts to assign the 4th finger for my fingerings for the reasons stated above; it promotes good left hand position, it puts the pinky in play more often.
Asturias AST-100-heavily modified by Robert England.

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Paul Janssen
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by Paul Janssen » Sat May 12, 2018 1:34 pm

I won't add anything to the discussion regarding left hand fingering as I think the advise given so far pretty well sums it up. But I will say is how impressed I always am with these "simple" Sor studies. He seemed to be able to say so much with so few notes.

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Larry McDonald
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by Larry McDonald » Thu May 24, 2018 2:08 pm

Hi,
I always recommend the 4th finger in this situation, for the reasons stated above. It allows beginners to more easily keep the other fingers over the fingerboard. The 3rd finger encourages pronation (a counter-clockwise rotation) of the hand away from the neck.

Sor encouraged the 4th finger, by the way. In his method he indicates the 4th finger on "G" and on "D". I default to its use on "Bb", too. The guy who literally wrote the book on guitar pedagogy calls it "Sor's 4th finger approach" -Anthony Glise -Guitar Pedagogy.

Rob is correct about the smaller guitar (not that he needs me to validate what he writes -I always consider his insights more than valuable). Even though Sor probably had a smaller guitar, he still encouraged the use of the 4th finger when the 3rd finger would easily reach.

Lare
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2018 Michael Thames "Ancient Dragon" Cd/Ir
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar and Theory Instructor

Carey
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by Carey » Thu May 24, 2018 3:16 pm

Paul Janssen wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:34 pm
I won't add anything to the discussion regarding left hand fingering as I think the advise given so far pretty well sums it up. But I will say is how impressed I always am with these "simple" Sor studies. He seemed to be able to say so much with so few notes.
I agree. There is so much just in Op. 60!

Alyamepi
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Re: Sor Op 60 No 1

Post by Alyamepi » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:41 pm

rpavich wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:13 pm
Purnell31 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:41 am
escasou wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:06 am
. . . The use of that finger [the fourth] in an early stage (like in that kind of studies) is important. First, the sooner the finger starts to work the better . . .

Indeed! I now realise that favouring the third finger was most likely because the fourth was "the weak link". By involving it as much as possible it is bound to gain in strength. Thanks for pointing this out - lesson taken to heart!
This is what my teacher has done for me repeatedly. When either 3rd or 4th finger are acceptable in a passage, he opts to assign the 4th finger for my fingerings for the reasons stated above; it promotes good left hand position, it puts the pinky in play more often.
I am a relative beginner myself, an in this piece (Sor 60/1) it doesn't matter at all, and I follow the reasoning above. On the other hand,there will soon be pieces involving C on the second string and G on the first, in a chord or arpeggio. That is not a hard stretch, but it feels more natural when I use my pinky for the G. However, I recommend practicing the third finger as well, because there are cases where you need the pinky for another note.

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