Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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guit-box
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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by guit-box » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:37 am

Did any of the right-to-left nail players you study with have advice about filing nails for this technique?
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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by ronjazz » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:06 am

guit-box wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:37 am
Did any of the right-to-left nail players you study with have advice about filing nails for this technique?
No, but I will let you know what Alice says. her nails look more or less curved rather than ramped.
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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by guit-box » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:57 pm

T Garcia also seems to have long rounded nails. Garcia or G. Abiton both are amazing players using the Ida Presti right hand technique



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guit-box
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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by guit-box » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:42 am

So amazing Presti technique and also shows there's more to plucking than what the main knuckle joint is doing.

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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:23 pm

When talking about which side of the nail one plays on, is there a convention? Right side when looking at the back of your hand or at your palm?

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Martin
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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by Martin » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:41 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:23 pm
When talking about which side of the nail one plays on, is there a convention? Right side when looking at the back of your hand or at your palm?
Palm down, "left" is the thumb side, "right" is the pinky side.

I think...

Martin
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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by segobreawill » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:56 pm

astro64 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:26 pm
The only young performer I know of that is world class and plays with Ida Presti's righthand technique is Thibaut Garcia. He won the GFA a few years ago and is outstanding. Look him up on Youtube. It hurst me to look at his right hand but it sure works for him.
I agree: His RH position is quite extreme!

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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by Tom Poore » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:56 pm

Missing from this discussion is any musical or biomechanical defense for playing with a severely deviated wrist. Over the years, I’ve neither seen nor heard any evidence that this way of playing offers any advantage. The best bent wrist players don’t sound better than the best straight wrist players. So what’s the point? Merely to show it can be done? Seems a silly reason for such an ergonomically questionable hand position.

Maybe there are rare cases—injury, or a malformed hand—that conceivably might justify the bent wrist approach. But for the vast majority of players, sorry, I ain’t buying.

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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by guit-box » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:42 am

A lot of players that we thought were left-to-right side players are actually right-to-left or both. Segovia is one player who seems to do both, but most people just assume he played left-to-right. Oscar Ghilia is another player who plays right-to-left. I highly suspect that if we looked very closely at the plucking direction of many players who play more or less parallel to the strings, we'd find they sometimes do both. It requires a rounded shape fingernail to do both.

Ghiglia


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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by guit-box » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:01 am

Fisk is probably plucking right-to-left
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:15 am

Tom Poore wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:56 pm
I’ve neither seen nor heard any evidence that this way of playing offers any advantage. The best bent wrist players don’t sound better than the best straight wrist players. So what’s the point? "

That's how I feel. Unless you are most natural and comfortable with playing off the right side of the nails, why would you retrain yourself to do that?

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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by SteveL123 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:16 pm

Martin wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:41 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:23 pm
When talking about which side of the nail one plays on, is there a convention? Right side when looking at the back of your hand or at your palm?
Palm down, "left" is the thumb side, "right" is the pinky side.

I think...

Martin
Thanks! Palm down would make sense, since palm is down when playing the strings. But I like your "pinky side and thumb side of the nail" description better than "left or right side of the nail". It is more concise, easier to visualize, with no chance of misinterpretation.

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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by Alexander Kalil » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:19 pm

Tom Poore wrote: The best bent wrist players don’t sound better than the best straight wrist players. So what’s the point? "
The point is probably the type of sound one wants to have. Generally, the type of sound a player gets with a certain angle of attack cannot be obtained with a different angle of attack. So if somebody wants a certain type of sound to be their default, they might have no choice but bending their wrist. That does not equate to playing on the right side of nails after Presti and Lagoya, though. Usually players would just drop their wrist slightly for a more perpendicular angle of attack, and else play as usual from the left side of nails. The Presti technique involves a more complex bent (dropping wrist + suppinating forearm).

The question remains whether that contortion rewards with a type of sound that cannot be obtained otherwise. My impression is that playing from the right side of nails makes it easier to obtain a full sound with a perpendicular free stroke attack. That may be harder to achieve with the standard left-nail-side technique, but is not impossible.

guit-box wrote: A lot of players that we thought were left-to-right side players are actually right-to-left or both.
The mere plucking direction as viewed from the front is not indicative of the Presti technique. A right-to-left swing to the plucking may be a necessary aspect of that technique, but it's not sufficient. I can play this way while still plucking the string in the standard fashion from the left side of nails. That could well be what Segovia, Chilia and Fisk are doing in the videos above.

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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by guit-box » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:35 pm

If you watch Alice A. teaching the Presti technique she talks about a high arch wrist. My understanding is she studied with Presti so she should know, so I don't think a dropped wrist would be considered Presti style. When I try to pluck right-to-left with a dropped wrist and a higher arch, the higher arch with a bit of supination feels the most natural. When I try it with a dropped wrist, the feeling of a kink on the right side of my wrist is more pronounce and doesn't feel so good for me. With the high wrist it's more of a hanging down with gravity feel.

It's difficult to see in the Segovia videos exactly how he's plucking, but if you look at the angle with which his a finger is approaching the string it would be hard to argue he's playing from left-to-right with the a finger. From that angle the right side of the finger is contacting first. The Fisk videos are more difficult to see. The Oscar G. video is 100% clear, he's plucking right-to-left in that video, he's even flicking his wrist to the right to do a slicing movement that has the string sliding over the nail from right-to-left.
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Re: Advice about Ida Presti's right hand technique

Post by guit-box » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:07 am

In this video of Segovia around 0:44 min you can see an extreme closeup of his right hand and it sure looks like the a finger is contacting on the right side of the finger first.

An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

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