Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
crazyrach97
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by crazyrach97 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:48 pm

I redacted the name-calling above. Apologies.

Wuuthrad
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by Wuuthrad » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:52 pm

We're all very passionate about guitar in our own ways and I take this as a very good thing!

Surely because of this, feathers will ruffle from time to time, as in everything.

I find this continued debate brings about a variety of study and information, and I hope it shall continue to do so.

Cheers everyone!

:merci:
"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." -Jean Sibelius

2lost2find
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by 2lost2find » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:08 pm

Dirck Nagy wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:43 pm

Because of the way he positions himself as an authority figure.
Authority figure? You're kidding, right? I'm a semi-retired rock guitarist in my middle forties with a 15 year old BA in music that I've never used for anything except a wall decoration (actually that's not true; the thing is stuffed in a box somewhere). I'm one hell of a guitar player, but an authority figure? No.

ddray
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by ddray » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:27 pm

2lost2find wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:45 pm
... (I'm the only person I know who is not on FB)...
Well now you know another. I refuse to have anything to do with Facebook.
Bei einer andächtigen Musik ist allezeit Gott mit seiner Gnaden Gegenwart.
--J. S. Bach

2lost2find
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by 2lost2find » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:36 pm

ddray wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:27 pm
2lost2find wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:45 pm
... (I'm the only person I know who is not on FB)...
Well now you know another. I refuse to have anything to do with Facebook.
Our taste in music might be quite different, but at least we have that in common...

2lost2find
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by 2lost2find » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:40 pm

Dirck Nagy wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:18 am

Hi Adrian, several of your past posts display a similar sentiment. As others have said, "Its OK to not like something." However, if you want to actually change something, thats another matter.

It is very easy to criticize, denigrate, belittle, destroy, and worse. But what will you replace it with? That is the challenge.

You seem to have a pretty clear idea of what you want to hear. If I may offer some input, I think there are a few possibilities. One can:
  • Write your own pieces.
  • Record them.
  • Commission your own pieces from established composers.
  • Find someone to perform them. (I've done it myself. Lots of people enjoy playing premieres!)
  • Gather your own audience together. (Its not that difficult...we all do it to some extent)
  • Start your own festival. Find some like-minded people to help. Financial backing might be difficult, but all these festivals had to begin somewhere!
All of these are proactive. They are also a lot of work. But I think the end result has the potential to actually add some value to all of our lives, something that railing on about the state of things on internet forums never does.

Look, every piece of music was written to fill a need. They didn't just appear at random. You have a clearly articulated need for a different type of music...go out and create it!

cheers!
dirck
Peace offering, Dirck... this was extremely well said. Somehow I missed it on the first go-round. I'm attempting to ease myself into the guitarist-composer role. As you said, it's a great deal of work.

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MartinCogg
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by MartinCogg » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:00 am

2lost2find wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:45 pm
She calls me out for being heated, then calls somebody a jerk... :lol:
I haven't been keeping up with this forum enough to know there was this crazy connection -

letting the cupboard become empty of fresh cg strings?

I think this is something else that Dirck should interrogate you about...
I'd do it meself except it's way past my bedtime already.

(+ another non-facebooker)

2lost2find
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by 2lost2find » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:21 am

MartinCogg wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:00 am

letting the cupboard become empty of fresh cg strings?

Sigghhh... somebody had to go there... :oops:

Scott Phillips
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by Scott Phillips » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:41 am

Wuuthrad wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:34 am
What the hell is avante-guarde anyway?

Sounds like a modern flavor of deodorant stick
Try new Mennen Avant - Guard. For when the music makes you sweat. Get it in stick, or atonal roll-on.

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MartinCogg
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by MartinCogg » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:11 pm

ddray wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:11 am
Duport, Popper, Dotzauer and Lee wrote some often-beautiful studies for cello. I don't think there are many cellists who would put them in the same league as Beethoven.
Cellists, unlike guitarists, also having works writ for their instrument by Beethoven of course... (I think I had some point with that but
it's floating around on the noggin-periphery)

I actually have a cd double of Duport etudes, and also a Dotzauer disc with Anner Bylsma executing some of the (Dotzauer) etudes -
rather too wildly it seems to me, I don't know if you've heard it...

Since you know these cello etudes from the perspective of a player - how do you think they compare (league-wise?)
with our 19thc. guitar composers' efforts?

ddray
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by ddray » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:44 pm

MartinCogg wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:11 pm
ddray wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:11 am
Duport, Popper, Dotzauer and Lee wrote some often-beautiful studies for cello. I don't think there are many cellists who would put them in the same league as Beethoven.
Cellists, unlike guitarists, also having works writ for their instrument by Beethoven of course... (I think I had some point with that but
it's floating around on the noggin-periphery)
Well yes, exactly. I can't blame the guitar for not existing in its modern form before relatively recently, but it is what it is. If it weren't for those larger works they have in the repertoire, cellists would be clinging for dear life to those etudes etc.
I actually have a cd double of Duport etudes, and also a Dotzauer disc with Anner Bylsma executing some of the (Dotzauer) etudes -
rather too wildly it seems to me, I don't know if you've heard it...

Since you know these cello etudes from the perspective of a player - how do you think they compare (league-wise?)
with our 19thc. guitar composers' efforts?
I'm *beginning* to know the cello etudes as a player, but I've heard others. I'll tell ya what, just in my opinion of course, the guitar composers are better. I would rather listen to or (try to) play Sor's complete studies than Duport's any day, but that may be partly due to the difference in instruments. There is obviously going to be more of harmonic interest in solo guitar music. Solo cello music has to be almost magical (as in the Bach suites) to hold your attention (in my opinion).
Bei einer andächtigen Musik ist allezeit Gott mit seiner Gnaden Gegenwart.
--J. S. Bach

Sir Plucksalot
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by Sir Plucksalot » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:43 pm

Not that bad.

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MartinCogg
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by MartinCogg » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:49 am

I don't think it's that bad either - though I can't help thinking that a top-notch recording would show it in a much better light.
Seems to me it's been page upon page mainly reacting about harder-to-swallow sorts of contemporary music/art (all of
which antics are 'old hat' anyway?) than the OP piece - for which we even got to see a sensible-enough-looking
score (the ability/effort needed to grapple with it being a different matter :? )



ddray wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:44 pm
]I'm *beginning* to know the cello etudes as a player, but I've heard others. I'll tell ya what, just in my opinion of course, the guitar composers are better. I would rather listen to or (try to) play Sor's complete studies than Duport's any day, but that may be partly due to the difference in instruments. There is obviously going to be more of harmonic interest in solo guitar music. Solo cello music has to be almost magical (as in the Bach suites) to hold your attention (in my opinion).
I generally find solo violin much easier to listen to than solo cello, but both usually preferable + piano -
loved the Kodaly solo cello sonata from 1st hearing and never grown sick of it - totally absorbing wonderful piece
(followed by the Britten suites in my solo cello affections)...

Maybe we should have more of the guitar + piano in our noggins :?:

ddray
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Re: Weiss is Purplexed:-)

Post by ddray » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:25 am

MartinCogg wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:49 am
...

I generally find solo violin much easier to listen to than solo cello, but both usually preferable + piano -
loved the Kodaly solo cello sonata from 1st hearing and never grown sick of it - totally absorbing wonderful piece
(followed by the Britten suites in my solo cello affections)...

Maybe we should have more of the guitar + piano in our noggins :?:
I think the Reger solo cello suites are interesting too...it's Double Stop City :lol: And so there we have (except for some modern pieces) the standard solo cello repertoire lol...
And oh yeah, ya know, I think the harpsichord or clavichord might be a better match for the guitar.
Bei einer andächtigen Musik ist allezeit Gott mit seiner Gnaden Gegenwart.
--J. S. Bach

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