Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

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Bertran
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Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by Bertran » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:37 pm

Batcheller was the first composer, they say, who introduced the passage.
Anyway, this piece is very demanding, with lot of variations with different technique - as we go to the end: they become more and more difficult. And interesting!

Actually, once there was a thread about number of variations (15 or 17 or...?). Well, I use Delcamp's version. Maybe I am wrong but as much I understand each varatiation have exactly 8 measures. So, first variation is between 1th - 8th measure, second between 9th - 16th measure and so on,... until we reach last variation between 153th – 160th which means that we have 160:8 = 20 variations !

I am curious to hear what someone with much more musical education than me say about it.

Nevertheless, I hope that you like it and recommend to play it. :)

Bertran II
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StuMayes
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Re: Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by StuMayes » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:26 pm

Bravo Bertran, I have loved this piece for many years and have abandoned it many times as simply impossible to play.

There is another version, much simpler, attributed to John Danyel (brother of the Elizabethan court poet Samuel Danyel).....I don't know who wrote which first, but as Daniel Batcheler was closely linked to the Sidney-Essex axis, who were opposed to the proposed royal marriage to the 'monsieur' in question (Francis, Duke of Anjou and Alençon) and that Danyel was older by a decade & whose brother supported the match, I'd go with the Batcheler variations as the later work.

Quite the virtuoso....the Van Halen of his day! 8)

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Re: Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by pogmoor » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:18 pm

I posted about the two versions in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29710&p=1047356&hi ... el#p301818. I also posted the John Danyel version here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=84893#p915421. The John Danyel version is a bit easier to play than the Daniel Bacheler version, but they do share variations in common. In fact there was debate for a while about whether the two musicians were in fact one and the same person - this was solved by a lady called Ann Batchelor who discovered biographical information about Daniel Bacheler when researching her family history.

Nice playing, Bertran - a tricky piece :)
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

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Bertran
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Re: Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by Bertran » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:40 pm

Thanks StuMayes,
Yes, the piece is demanding, I have practiced every day about 8 months before I dared to record it.
Great post of you, very useful information I didn't know. It is always nice when one have background information that fulfill the "picture".

Thanks pogmoor,
Yes, very tricky, for both hands. I see you made an effort into your transcription. I believe that you enjoyed your performance. As far as I can see your version (of DB), you are marking 20 variations that fit with my calculation. I'm glad about that. :)

Best, Bertran II

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Re: Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by StuMayes » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:46 am

You're most welcome Bertran. Yes it's an interesting back-story. Batcheler was attached to Philip Sidney's household as a young lad, he must have been talented from a very young age. Sidney published a letter arguing against the French match, perhaps encouraged by his uncle (the Earl of Essex) and the queen was not best pleased. Sidney was banished from court and eventually died of wounds after the battle of Zutphen. Perhaps Batcheler's superior version was a musical way of displaying the superior force of the argument by outshining the original? Who knows!

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Re: Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by pogmoor » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:06 pm

StuMayes wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:46 am
...Yes it's an interesting back-story. Batcheler was attached to Philip Sidney's household as a young lad, he must have been talented from a very young age. Sidney published a letter arguing against the French match, perhaps encouraged by his uncle (the Earl of Essex) and the queen was not best pleased. Sidney was banished from court and eventually died of wounds after the battle of Zutphen. Perhaps Batcheler's superior version was a musical way of displaying the superior force of the argument by outshining the original? Who knows!
I'm not sure about some of these details. According to Anne Batchelor (Batchelor, A, (1988). Daniel Bacheler: The Right Perfect Musician. The Lute, XXVIII p. 3 - 12.) Daniel Bacheler's parents ran a farm at Aston Clinton in Buckinghamshire. His mother's brother, Thomas Cardell, was a lutenist and dancing master at the court of Queen Elizabeth. Daniel was apprenticed to Cardell at the age of 7 (in 1579) and entered the service Sir Francis Walsingham (Secretary of State to Queen Elizabeth) at the age of 14 and following Walsingham's death in 1590 probably entered the service of Robert Deveraux the Earl of Essex. Later following Essex's death he appears to have enteredthe royal service as a Groom of the Privy Chamber in the court of Queen Anne, wife of James 1st).

The connection with Sir Philip Sidney (Walsingham's son-in-law) was that Daniel Bacheler was chosen to be one of two pages in his funeral procession in 1587.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

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StuMayes
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Re: Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by StuMayes » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:29 pm

Thanks for the extra info pogmoor, I wonder if Francis Walsingham 'bought' Batcheler for his daughter Frances? After her marriage to Sidney, she married the above Robert Devereux, which would perhaps explain the apparent continuity of patronage.
The French match was first mooted in 1579, and that seems -to me- too early to argue Batcheler as the originator of the work, combined with the sense that it sounds -to my ears at least- like an elaboration of the Danyel version.

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pogmoor
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Re: Batcheler, Daniell – Mounsiers Almaine - D09

Post by pogmoor » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:19 pm

StuMayes wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:29 pm
...I wonder if Francis Walsingham 'bought' Batcheler for his daughter Frances? After her marriage to Sidney, she married the above Robert Devereux, which would perhaps explain the apparent continuity of patronage.
It's difficult to know. Anne Batchelor found evidence that Bacheler was paid by Devereux from 1594 onwards, but I don't think it's clear where he was between11590 (when Walsingham died) and 1594.

It's also difficult to know which version of Mounsiers Almaine came first. The DB version appears in A Varietie of Lute Lessons (1610) but also in the manuscripts compiled by Matthew Holmes in the 1590s as does the JD version.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

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